‘Admissible’ Episode 8: UVA Law Admissions Midcycle Debrief

NATALIE BLAZER: My husband calls me the mailman. And by that he means it doesn't matter what the circumstances, what the weather, how you're feeling, people get their mail. I think I take that approach to our office as well.

KATIE DALESSANDRO: That admissions decision coming into your inbox brought to you by Dean Natalie Blazer. Postmaster general, and chief admission officer of UVA Law.

NATALIE BLAZER: Oh, my God, I love it. This is admissible. I'm Natalie Blazer Dean of admissions at UVA Law. Today is a very special episode. We're giving listeners an inside look into the 2022, 2023 admission cycle so far. At the time of recording, we are exactly 13 weeks into the cycle. And we have 13 weeks to go until our application deadline of March 1. So we are right here at the halfway point, which is very exciting.

We'll share our observations about the cycle so far, including any trends we're noticing. And as always we'll do our best to serve up some advice for all the listeners out there who are hard at work on their law school applications. So I want to point out we're going to be talking about our experience reading files, and interviewing, and admitting people these last three months. But I want to reiterate that we're only halfway through.

So if you haven't hit submit on your application yet, do not stress, there's still time. I always tell people a weak application early in the cycle never beats a strong application late in the cycle. So submit it when it's your best work. And believe me, we will be doing plenty of interviewing and admitting in the spring. Now, it's possible you're listening to this and you already have submitted your application, and now you're playing the waiting game.

We understand that can be a stressful process as well. So we'll offer some thoughts on what you can do while you're waiting for your decision. Having said all that, my guests today are our two wonderful directors of admissions, Katie Dalessandro, and Roseanne Ibanez. Along with myself, Katie and Roseanne are reading applications and interviewing candidates. So they have had a similar vantage point to this cycle as I have.

As with any group of people, the three of us, I think, have slightly different takes on things, which I think is definitely a good thing for the applicants out there. And it's also why I'm so excited to chat with them today and hear from them about what we've been seeing so far. And what we think it all means. Katie, Roseanne, as you may know, I like to start each episode with a fun fact about our guests. Can you tell our listeners one thing that you would want a committee to about you? Start with you Katie.

KATIE DALESSANDRO: Well, so for those of you that don't, I am a 2012 graduate of UVA Law. And I actually married the brother of one L section mates. So someone that I met on the very first day of law school, will now be sitting around the thanksgiving table for the rest of my life. And he actually married a UVA Law alum as well. And so we have quite the UVA spirit at our family get togethers, for sure.

NATALIE BLAZER: Love that. Love that. What about you Roseanne?

ROSEANNE IBANEZ: I will say, if we're just doing a fun facts, I'll stay on the marrying theme here, and I've recently calculated this, but I've been in 14 weddings. Four of them are from law school. And four of them I performed. So I guess I share this to show people that relationships are really important to me. And it doesn't mean that I have to be the bridesmaid in your wedding to give you an A.

But it does mean that what I'm looking for people who make really genuine connections with the communities that they're in. Again, you don't have to marry us. And you don't have to marry anyone in your section. But building-- building meaningful relationships can be really important and hard to do in an application, but definitely not impossible.

NATALIE BLAZER: I love this. Actually, someone in my first year section officiated my wedding. So the theme is love in law school. I'm just kidding. We're going to talk about more than just that. But I love that, I love that. I don't think I fully knew that about Roseanne, that's a lot of weddings to be in. Oh, my gosh.

ROSEANNE IBANEZ: Yeah on a scale of 1 to Katherine Heigl, and 21 dress-- or 27 dresses I'm at 14. And there's a closet in my house.

NATALIE BLAZER: And you have tons of time left. So wow. OK. On to our cycle analysis. What have you noticed that sets the 2022, 2023 cycle apart from others? Or is it just like any other cycle?

KATIE DALESSANDRO: One thing that has been different for us at least from the past few cycles is that we have been able to travel a lot more, which allows us to really make a different kind of connection with our applicants and with students who are potentially going to be applying. We've been able to incorporate our current students a lot in that travel. So bringing them with us.

And I mean, nobody is better at talking about life at UVA and really conveying the special spirit that we have better-- more than they are. And so being able to bring them into the process and really make that in-person connection, I think has been a really welcome change.

ROSEANNE IBANEZ: I think one of the important things that is really special to me as the newest person on this team is to that UVA Law, we do all of the interviews in our own office, which I think is really, really rare. So if you're waiting for us, we're sorry. It's totally our fault.

NATALIE BLAZER: That's such a good point, we do keep it in house. There's only three of us who are interviewing. And so it does take us a while to get through people. Speaking of the travel that we did. I want to point out that these events are on Saturdays. Our students are giving up a Saturday to go stand in a room and talk to people about UVA Law. And I think they do it very happily.

We have one alum, shout out Alex, in LA. He spent his entire Saturday. He's a busy, busy, busy big law attorney with a very important job. He spent his entire Saturday in a hotel in LA. And told me that he just had the best time talking to people about UVA Law. So those are the types of alums we have. It has been so great having those interactions this fall. So given that we're at this crucial halfway point of the cycle, which again is really hard to believe. What are we hoping to see more of in 2023? Or less of?

ROSEANNE IBANEZ: I think I'm going to address that big elephant in the room, which is that question on resilience. So Q12. I will say I've read some really, really, really incredible ones. One of the things I hope people keep in mind actually is that this is one of the first pieces of your own writing that we read in the application. It's just where it is in the order of things. So making sure that you use that space. I think is really important.

You have really limited real estate in an application. So using every bit that a school gives to you can be really, really important. So have we had some pretty tragic-- fill this out later, exclamation point. Yes. So don't do that. But also, definitely take the space to reflect. And think about the things that are important to that you might not get space for, or be able to dedicate other space for, for sure.

NATALIE BLAZER: So Rosanne brought up the resilience question. I have talked about this before on the podcast. But for those who don't know, question 12 on our application is new this year. We're asking about the quality of resilience. We are asking you to tell us about a time in your life when you were resilient. We've seen this go a lot of different ways as Roseanne pointed out. But for those of you who are a reapplicant, or who haven't looked at the application yet. This has changed.

So just that we are loving reading these and they are making a big difference.

KATIE DALESSANDRO: I would say another thing we like to see, and we always like to see, is genuine interest in UVA. And that can take a lot of different forms. For some people that is an addendum for why UVA specifically. And they'll write us a one pager of why the school fits for them. One tip I have for that is, there are a lot of academic reasons that people are interested in UVA.

And those are really great, and really important, and I think sometimes people hesitate to bring in the personal reasons. And we've talked about this in our office. Right, there's nothing wrong with telling us that your mom lives in Charlottesville. Or your fiance wants to go to medical school at UVA.

If anything, that can help you. And those UVA essays are one way to do it. If it's something that we can glean from your personal statement or your geographic preferences, or your career goals, we're taking all of that into account. But showing us that UVA is a place that you want to be specifically, can really, really benefit you in an application.

NATALIE BLAZER: Absolutely and look if you don't have any of those that's OK too. You should always come at it from an authentic place so I did a little research on this. I think you both know this. I was very curious to see the impact of a why UVA Law statement on whether someone matriculated or not. And about the same percentage of folks who wrote one came to UVA Law as the percentage of people who wrote one who didn't come.

So don't necessarily think that this is going to be the end all, be all for your app. And we certainly that it's not the end all be all for you matriculating. So in that essay, in your personal statement, in the Q12 as Roseanne said, really reflect and take the time to think about, is this where you want to be? If you don't have anything specific to say, that's OK. What I would add from this cycle, what we've seen so far, the interview process is very key to whether you get admitted or not.

I think UVA has a reputation for having a very high turnover rate-- or conversion rate, I should say from interview to admission. That doesn't mean an interview is a given that you're going to be admitted. So just make sure you prepare for that, as you would for any professional interview. I think can tell by the way we're all talking to one another, that pretty casual, you don't need to overprepare for these things. We really just want to get to you better and have a genuine conversation.

So as most people in order to be admitted to UVA law you do have to go through an interview. So what can you tell listeners maybe about the interview. I mean, you don't have to give away everything, but I think there's a lot of anxiety around this process. So you what have you seen from interviews so far, what do you like to do in your own interviews?

KATIE DALESSANDRO: Yeah so I will give away a little bit because what I always say is I am not trying to hide the ball. This interview is not meant to trick you or manipulate you in any way. I ask every person, why do you want to go to law school? And I ask every person why do you want to go to UVA? And so please have those answers prepared. Beyond that, when I'm asking interview questions, I'm looking to better understand things that maybe were left a little grey in the application.

And that will vary by person. And then I try to end the interview on a question that's just meant to be fun. And to show me just a little personality, right. Because I you're bringing your best, most professional self to the interview as you should. But I like to throw at least one question in there that allows you to of open up and show a different part of your personality before we conclude. And then I always leave time for questions too.

So I do really appreciate when people put thought into the questions that they have prepared for me. Because this is a big decision for you. And you should have questions.

ROSEANNE IBANEZ: I will say, I really, really love the interview process. Because it gives us a chance to see all of your application in action. Like living and breathing. And granted it's still on Zoom, but you can definitely, I think, see more than you can on paper, a lot of the interview, I think, is to see if you would be a great fit for UVA Law. And I think knowing our community, I always ask myself, what would this person be like in a classroom with James, and Kate, and Jack, and Judy, and all of these students?

Would they interact with Keegan in a way that's awesome? Or like would they be an ally to certain groups? How would they participate? And so that's my underlying thought process. And so I think a lot of these questions draw out some of your personality, which we definitely want to see. And yeah, I agree with Katie, we're not here to trip you up, we're here to-- we want you to come if you've made it to that point. So making sure you do prepare, but also that know what you're talking about when you're talking to us is really important.

KATIE DALESSANDRO: One other thing maybe that I would-- for people who have not yet submitted their applications, I will say, I think, at least more than last year, I'm seeing LSAT and GPA addendums that actually do more to undermine your candidacy than to help you. So the last thing we want is to get to the end of your addendum and think, I don't if this person is going to be able to thrive in a law school environment. Given whatever they have just told me.

And so really think about whether your addendum is doing anything to-- the goal should be to show us that you are ready for law school, despite whatever gap you think might exist in your application. It's not to make an excuse or explain something in a way that shows us that you might actually not have the requisite skills for law school. So just really take your time with those, and think about whether what you've written furthers your case.

NATALIE BLAZER: There is one type of addenda that is necessary if you have any character and fitness infractions. Remember that these are not going to be your barrier to entry to law school, believe me, but if you do answer yes to any of our character and fitness questions, you do need to submit an addendum explaining what the infraction was. One thing I have noticed this cycle, I don't know if more or less than previous cycles, maybe it's because recency bias it feels like more.

It doesn't really matter what the infraction is, however severe, or not severe that infraction is, I like to see when people take responsibility for what they did. Please don't go on, and on, and on. I don't want to see like self-flagellation over a noise violation in college. But there are some that are written with really zero accountability. And no real self-awareness, no growth, no-- that is not a good trait for a future lawyer.

So again, just a little bit of responsibility. Show us, OK. This didn't happen again. I take full responsibility. That's really all we care about. And this can be a very short written statement. It does not need to be long. Most infractions really are minor. But future law students, you need to have that maturity and that accountability. So make sure you're conveying in that addendum. What advice, Katie and Roseanne, would you give to someone who is applying to UVA Law this cycle? Now, let me specify, someone who has not yet submitted their application.

KATIE DALESSANDRO: So I think in addition to all the great advice they have gotten listening to this podcast, and hopefully from our website, and other resources they have, what I tell people is put together the best application that you can make sure it sounds like you, not who you think the ideal law school applicant is. And then once you have submitted, let it go.

Right? It's not in your hands at that point. So do the best you can on the front end and then let the process take its course. So my advice to you is try to enjoy your holidays do whatever it is that you like to do to relax. And just don't get in your own way, or don't get in your head. And if online message boards and things like that are adding more stress than helpfulness to your life, then maybe try to cut down on them a little bit.

ROSEANNE IBANEZ: And I would recommend to everyone, including people who have already applied actually spend even more time than you have reflecting on this decision, whether it is going to law school, what you want to do with it. Where you want to be. I think that actually really comes out in applications in ways that people don't see. My first question in the interview is always why do you want to go to law school? And why do you want to go right now?

And I think some people have kind of prepared their answers, but it's different to really take some time to sit on it. And if you think that have already figured this out, dig even deeper. Because there's always going to be more there. And this is the energy from which you push yourself through the difficult times of law school, and in this process. So I think that is truly, truly important. And being honest with yourself in terms of the moves that are right for you and the decisions that you're going to make in the next coming months.

NATALIE BLAZER: Now, we touched on this earlier. I mentioned that people who have submitted their application already.

ROSEANNE IBANEZ: They're waiting.

NATALIE BLAZER: They're waiting for a decision.

ROSEANNE IBANEZ: We try our best not to have you wait too long before you hear from us with one decision or another. My best advice is if you haven't heard from someone from an admissions office in let's say, several months, three plus months. It's OK to send an email, just to say, I'm here, i know you are all busy. Being a little bit self aware that you are one application among thousands. And that there's a lot going on in any given day.

But tell us. Tell us you're there and you're still interested. And maybe you've heard back from a few schools already, but you you're really still excited about UVA.

NATALIE BLAZER: Is that a definite ticket to admission?

ROSEANNE IBANEZ: No, of course not. But when we are sorting through, again, thousands of files. It doesn't hurt to let us that you're still there and that you're still interested. There is a way to do it respectfully, and if we know your first and last name. That's probably not a great sign if you have not yet been admitted. So don't overdo it, but I think again, this is such a community, this is such a personal process. So don't ever feel like can't reach out to us to tell us that you're still interested.

KATIE DALESSANDRO: And look, after you've submitted your applications that's the time that you should let yourself off the hook, relax a little bit, distract yourself. As Rosanne mentioned, I think this is great advice. Continue to think about this. Continue to reflect on your decision. Continue to grow and learn. And really live your life while you're waiting. I promise it won't be that long. We really do our best to get back to people in a reasonable time frame.

NATALIE BLAZER: I'll just say, what I always say, which is that I truly believe I have the best job in the world. I love reading your applications. I love talking to you. And so if it gives you any peace of mind in this process, please know that the people on the other side of your application are people. And we are rooting for you through this process. And we're truly enjoying everything you're putting together for us.

ROSEANNE IBANEZ: And along those lines. The other thing I would say is please don't be too discouraged. We read a lot of applications with people who have incredible attainable goals. And we're excited for you to join the profession. So if you're just waiting for a decision, or you don't get the decision that you have always anticipated. I say this as someone who's taken a couple of turns to get to my dream job. It would be to stay the course.

There's lots of ways to get where you are trying to go. And sometimes we take the front door, and sometimes we take a window. Or sometimes we wait for the next time and knock again. So we've seen all of these different paths end where people want to get to. And so I just want to tell people out there, if you have a story, and you're doing this because there are obstacles in your life that you've overcome. Keep on going, it's hard to be what you can't see. So knowing your story, and knowing the good that can come out of it, no matter where you end up, we're rooting for you, as Katie says.

NATALIE BLAZER: This has been very heartwarming just for me. I feel this episode is going to come out right before the December holidays. I hope we've left you with some good feelings. We have, if you can't tell, enjoyed every step of the way. This cycle has been really exciting. We've admitted some great people so far. We're excited to see who we admit next. So Katie and Roseanne, thank you so much for being here.

I know we see each other every single day. And talk a lot every day. But this has been really fun. So thank you for coming.

KATIE DALESSANDRO: Thanks for having us. It's been a blast.

ROSEANNE IBANEZ: Thanks, everyone. We hope we see you soon.

NATALIE BLAZER: This has been admissible with me Dean Natalie Blazer, at the University of Virginia School of Law. My guests today were directors of admissions Katie Dalessandro, and Roseanne Ibanez. For more information about applying to UVA Law, please visit law.virginia.edu. The next episode of admissible will be out soon. And in the meantime, you can follow the show on Instagram at @admissiblepodcast. Thanks so much for listening. And please remember to rate the show wherever you listen to podcasts.