Second-year law student and Black Law Students Association President Keegan Hudson discusses building community, “mowing your own grass” and tuning out misinformation when it comes to applying to law school.
Transcript
KEEGAN HUDSON: That was my favorite course so far as Property, especially like after my one fall. Like, I didn't do as good as I thought that I was going to do, and then I got Property with Alex Johnson, I was like, oh, OK, like I'm not stupid. Like, this is sticking and--
NATALIE BLAZER: You know what--
KEEGAN HUDSON: I know what I'm talking about, right?
NATALIE BLAZER: It's funny. Property made me feel not smart. I had Schragger, who was amazing. And I tease him, actually. Like whenever I see him, I'm like, you gave me my worst grade in law school, and he's like, I was a really hard grader back then. Like, I'm changed now, and I'm like, doesn't help me now.
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This is Admissible. I'm Natalie Blazer, Dean of Admissions at UVA Law. My guest today is second-year law student Keegan Hudson. Born and raised in Spring Hill, Tennessee, Keegan graduated from Alcorn State University in 2020 with a degree in agribusiness management. Prior to enrolling at UVA Law, Keegan worked on Capitol Hill as a staff assistant for Majority Whip James Clyburn. He also interned with the Congressional Black Caucus foundation as well as the Department of Homeland Security.
Keegan is a former Division I football player as well as an Eagle Scout. At UVA Law, Keegan serves as president of the Black Law Students Association. And he's a true friend of Admissions. Always brightens our day by coming to the office. So I am thrilled to have Keegan on the show today. Welcome to Admissible.
KEEGAN HUDSON: Thank you so much, Dean Blazer. I'm happy to be here.
NATALIE BLAZER: So this season, I've been asking every guest an icebreaker at the beginning. I would love to know what is your last meal on Earth?
KEEGAN HUDSON: Ooh. Last meal on Earth? It would probably be some stuff that doesn't go together. Maybe like a nice big steak. Mac and cheese, has to be there preferably cooked by Granny Hudson.
NATALIE BLAZER: Oh.
KEEGAN HUDSON: And then this is the crazy stuff. Maybe like a bowl of gumbo or something, too, I don't know.
NATALIE BLAZER: That's nice. You gotta get it all in.
KEEGAN HUDSON: Exactly.
NATALIE BLAZER: I totally get it. So I want to talk a little bit about your path to law school. When was it that you first decided to pursue a law degree and what led you to that decision?
KEEGAN HUDSON: It's a long story. It's a funny story, though. When I was a kid, I saw my dad do something that really stuck with me. My grandfather, he was a farmer, and he had a third grade education. Wasn't too literate. But he was lucky. And so he inherited a lot of land-- actually, I think it was like a poker game or something crazy.
And so throughout the 20th century, when the family needed money, he would sell off acres of land. The unfortunate part about that was because he had gotten the land for so cheap, he didn't necessarily how much it was worth and how much that worth had appreciated over time. And my father is the youngest of 10 siblings and he is the only male who went to college.
And I remember as a kid, my grandfather, he was telling us that a developer had came and made an offer on the last little bit of land. And once he told the family how much they were asking for, everybody was happy. And my dad, being the stubborn guy he was, had a conversation with my grandfather, and my grandfather, being the stubborn guy he was, wasn't hearing it.
And so my dad went and got his real estate license in the State of Mississippi and represented the family and they ended up selling it-- I think it was something like either 3 or 5 times as much as the original asking price.
NATALIE BLAZER: Wow.
KEEGAN HUDSON: And so the more I thought about it, the more I realized that I could get something, I guess, akin to that by pursuing a legal education because like as an attorney, you're representing people who don't necessarily have the education or the background to understand the matters that they're currently facing. And so I think that that rewarding and that self-fulfillment that my father had in representing the family, I think I might be able to get a piece of that as an attorney.
NATALIE BLAZER: That's amazing. So understanding what led you to pursue the law and law school, you're only a second-year law student. So you applied not too long ago. What do you remember about just your own law school application process?
KEEGAN HUDSON: Yeah, that's another funny story. I had two law school application processes. The first one was not very good, admittedly. I applied my senior year of college at Alcorn, and I didn't anybody who had went to law school, I didn't anybody in law school.
And so when I met one person who had went to law school-- I think he was a Alcorn alum, graduated in like 2012, I met him at Homecoming and I was telling him that I wanted to go to law school, that I wanted to be an attorney, and was asking if he had any advice for the law school application process, specifically the LSAT.
And so he tells me that the LSAT is different from other tests to get into grad programs like the MCAT in that there's not specific facts that you study to take the test.
NATALIE BLAZER: Ohh.
KEEGAN HUDSON: So me, I'm like, oh, well I think I'm sharp. There's no need to really spend time studying. And so this was like maybe October. It was already too late. I was taking the LSAT in late November, but yeah, I didn't spend much time studying.
NATALIE BLAZER: Wow.
KEEGAN HUDSON: And so obviously did not do the best. I think I applied to like five schools and got them all in like the last day of February. The school list was also very unintentional. Just a bunch of schools-- most of them were close to my undergrad because I wasn't ready to leave. And I remember COVID happened.
And so I was home once the seat deposit deadline started coming up. And I remember sitting upstairs by myself choosing the law school that I decided to go to, has a very strong environmental law program. And so with my background in agriculture, I figured, OK, well, if I go to this school, it may not be the best school, but they have a really strong environmental law program, I can do that and then come out a specialist.
And the kicker, though, was the school was like further northeast than I was willing to go, I'll say that. And I remember sitting there and contemplating on the seat deposit and praying, came to the realization that God does not want me that far north. And so I took the walk of shame downstairs and I told my parents that I was not going to law school after they had told our many relatives that I was.
And yeah, so then it came to the point where I'm like, OK, well, we're not doing law school this fall, we gotta figure something out. Time to be a big boy. Fortunately, that summer I interned with Congressional Black Caucus Foundation, made some wonderful contacts there, and it was the most random thing ever. Whip Clyburn ended up losing a staff assistant right when I was applying.
And so after a couple interviews, I remember the chief of staff was asking me, he was like, well, Keegan, you're in Spring Hill, this is not a remote position, so how soon can you be up there? And I told him I said, well, if you give me the job, I can be up there next week.
NATALIE BLAZER: Wow.
KEEGAN HUDSON: And that's what happened. So I got hired, I think, July 29, and my first day of work was August 5. Fortunately I had a cousin who lived in DC. Asked, begged, pleaded for her to take me in for however long, and she did, and started working there. And to answer the question, the second application process was very intentional. Now I'm surrounded by lawyers, I'm surrounded by people who had gone to law school, gone to great law schools. And then they were really understanding.
So I took the job. My chief of staff and Whip Clyburn accepted me understanding that I would only be there for a year. They knew that my short-term goal really was to go to law school. So I took the LSAT again, did considerably better, and was able to get everything on the October 1 deadline this time. So very intentional, chose my schools wisely, and yeah, and it all worked out.
NATALIE BLAZER: I love so much of what you said. First of all, a lot of people can have an unsuccessful admission cycle, and it doesn't mean that they're not going to law school or they're not going to the law school they want.
Taking a beat and being able to-- that moment where you have to tell people even though you already told them, like I fully appreciate that that's never fun, but how worth it, I mean, to not only get that amazing year of work experience under your belt, but then to go into the decision that much more sure about it. So it was an intentional process. Tell me how you ultimately chose UVA in this second cycle.
KEEGAN HUDSON: Yeah, so one of my really close friends was a staff assistant who was actually applying at the same time I was. And to be really honest with you, it was him. He loved UVA-- I mean, he was gung-ho, Super Hoo. And I remember, I got a fee waiver in my email. Most random thing, I didn't send in anything. And I was like, OK, well, my friend talks about UVA every day, I might as well apply, too.
And so I remember when I got in, it was like that feeling of like, oh, wow, like this is real this is such an incredible opportunity. And it really took the lawyers and specifically the chief of staff for Whip Clyburn, Yebbie Watkins, and his mentorship in choosing UVA. And it took him talking me through my options and through outcomes and really bringing the numbers to me, and I was like, OK, yeah, this UVA place is worth the look. And then once I started looking, I was like, OK, well yep, this just made my decision for me, really.
NATALIE BLAZER: Oh, I love that. We have so many people out there-- I always say this-- are unpaid interns who are helping recruit great people like on, people who about the school and alums or other folks, so that's great. So I want to talk a little bit about your experience. You're a little bit more than halfway through the three years. So as far as your expectations of law school, tell me, is it different than you thought? Is it what you thought? How has your experience been so far?
KEEGAN HUDSON: Yeah, of course. It's been a lot different than I initially thought. I think all the media that you consume about law school is very daunting. And so I thought that for three years of my life, I was going to be in a cave of a study room with my nose in a book stressed out, freaking out every day, and like that hasn't necessarily been my experience. I think that it's really interesting material that we talk about.
I think that it's really fulfilling. And the acquisition of information and the ability to just like continue absorbing that, I think that's so cool. And I think that it's cool to learn a variety of different aspects of the law that you may not have considered or may not even known were a thing before you got into law school.
I also think like I wasn't necessarily prepared for the social presence in law school. I thought it was going to be like work, and specifically like Capitol Hill, very buttoned up, handshakes. And that hasn't been my experience at all. Like, the people are so friendly. Like I've made wonderful friends that I hope last a lifetime.
I thought that law school professors would be this evil academic character. Like no, they're regular people. They're just brilliant. And so yeah, I think law school, for me, is a much brighter experience than I was expecting.
I'm so happy to hear that, and I want to highlight what you said about the information that you take in. And this goes back to what you said about someone told you that the LSAT is an IQ test. There is so much bad information out there. So someone who takes the LSAT without studying, of course they're not going to do the same as somebody who prepares.
And it's so easy, I think, to take advice either from someone or from strangers on the internet, which is more common these days. And I think it's just always better to get your information from the source, from the law school, from current students, from faculty, things like that. So I'm so glad that the experience has exceeded your expectations. I know people have sort of fears when they come into it, so that's great.
So as I mentioned in your bio, you came to law school with great work experience in Washington. You were a student athlete. You went to an HBCU. You are an Eagle Scout. Like, I'm curious, is there anything that you feel specifically prepared you well for this experience?
KEEGAN HUDSON: Not specifically. All my experiences have cultivated together. Playing college athletics taught me the value of teamwork. It taught me the value of duty. And specifically football, the interesting thing about football is that 11 people are on the field and they each have an entirely different assignment.
So like an offensive lineman is playing an entirely different game than a quarterback, but they both rely on each other for success. And if all 11 people meet their goals, there's 100% success rate. So that really taught me the value in teamwork and uplifting your teammates.
When I was in Scouts, I was a senior patrol leader of the troop. And so I was in charge of young men from the ages of seven to 13. That taught me a lot about patience and listening and leadership. So that was essential. My work on Capitol Hill, that taught me sometimes you just got to put your nose down and get the work done. You're not going to like it all the time.
And then specifically, going to an HBCU, I think, has been like immediately impactful to my experience as BALSA President because at Alcorn, I was able to really find the necessity in maintaining a Black space in an educational institution. And I think that experience has translated immediately to the way that I approach the Black Law Students Association, the way that I approach my leadership there, and my attempt to maintain and protect and ensure that the value is held in Black spaces at UVA Law.
NATALIE BLAZER: That's a perfect segue, actually, because I want to talk about BALSA. And for those, just to clarify because we've used a couple acronyms, HBCU, Historically Black College and University, Alcorn State University is one of them. There are several throughout the country. And then BALSA, which is our Black Law Students Association, of which Keegan, as I mentioned at the top of the show, is the President. So I want you to tell me a little bit about that organization, the work that you do, your involvement with it.
KEEGAN HUDSON: Yeah. So the Black Law Students Association was brought to UVA in 1970. And what it is is essentially an organization that spans across most law schools in the US and some in Canada that provides space for Black students.
We do professional mentorship, we do social activities, we do academic help. And the main thing all those things do is fosters community amongst Black students at the law school. And yeah, so it's really important. You have all these people who at least on some level can relate to some similarity of culture. And I think that that's so important in white spaces because the legal profession everywhere is overwhelmingly white.
And so for me, it was such a rewarding experience coming to UVA. And there's this bustling incredible Black community within the law school. Like we have our own space, we have our own events. And so if Black community is something that you value, there's that here, and I think that that's just incredible.
NATALIE BLAZER: And I have to brag because I you're not going to, but UVA BALSA Chapter just one, again--
KEEGAN HUDSON: Yes.
NATALIE BLAZER: Mid-Atlantic Chapter of the Year, right?
KEEGAN HUDSON: Yes, we won the Regional Chapter of the Year.
NATALIE BLAZER: And under your leadership, I hope you're proud of that. I know we as a school are extremely proud of that and it just makes me thrilled that it's being recognized. And I, as the Dean of Admissions, I see what your organization does, I see the community that you have built, but to have external recognition also just feels great. And it makes me, just on a personal level, happy, happy that our Black law students are thriving and building that community.
So you mentioned leadership. I have mentioned leadership because you are the BALSA President. I think especially what you said about teamwork, you're on a football team, I would love to hear your approach to leadership in that way.
KEEGAN HUDSON: Yeah, I think said it. At a law school like UVA, everybody is so brilliant, everybody has their own opinions, everybody is so talented. The way I approach leadership, and the way I approach leadership specifically to BALSA, everybody just has different skill sets. And so at the beginning of our term, we set out expectations and we set out a list of events that we expect every member on the board to pursue and complete.
And after that, I took a step back and let them do what they do, and they did it beautifully, they did it wonderfully, and they succeeded. And so that's why like we've been able to do an unprecedented amount of events for our chapter because everybody is focusing on themselves. When I was playing football, our coach used the term "Mow your own grass." Because if I'm too busy looking at my neighbor's grass, my grass is going to grow.
And so that's the approach that I've tried to instill in the board. Everybody's focusing on their workload and mowing their own grass, and we can expand and accomplish so much. And so I can't take much credit in our accomplishments because it was truly a group effort, and everybody really made this happen together. And it's been an incredible and rewarding experience.
NATALIE BLAZER: So much of what you said just really rings true. And I'm curious, of all the events, do you have a favorite from this year?
KEEGAN HUDSON: I guess my favorite event this is a cheap copout, but my favorite event hasn't necessarily happened yet.
NATALIE BLAZER: OK.
KEEGAN HUDSON: So this year, this is our Membership Chair Toulouse's baby. But it's going to be an alumni gala formal reception. One of the things that we noticed was that there's not necessarily a strong relationship between our current members and our alums and we'd like to remedy that. And so it's going to be a formal reception, black tie. It'll be during Admitted Students Weekend, so hopefully some of them get to attend.
And yeah, so I think we have 200 tickets so far. We've sold over half of them to alums not even considering the current members who are going to attend. And so that's going to be really cool to get everybody together, celebrate our successes, and celebrate our legacy.
Also, there's a Spotlight Award that the chapter is given out every year. And so the first recipient of that Spotlight Award was the late Congressman Donald McEachin. And so we actually renamed the Spotlight Award in his honor and also renamed the gala in his honor. So it'll be the A. Donald McEachin Spotlight Award Gala. Yeah, and I'm excited to bring everybody together. And that'll happen March 18. So that's like our capstone event for my board, and so--
NATALIE BLAZER: That's incredible. And humility, and giving others credit where credit is due. I notice you have a lot of humility in your approach to leadership, which I also think is very important. Again, the organization is working because there are a ton of really great people behind it. And you all are so motivated. I think your organization has the busiest students in our building. Just-- you're doing so much.
And speaking of which, you have helped us in Admissions so much. You traveled for us. I know that BALSA is always reaching out and connecting with admitted students, chatting with them while they're here, chatting with them on email or phone. Why is that something that's important to you personally?
KEEGAN HUDSON: I guess it's just like, I don't know, like an implicit duty. Because I would not be here if it wasn't for people like Yebbie Watkins, it wasn't for Jim Clyburn, if it wasn't for all the countless people, my parents, all the countless people who instilled these things in me that led me end up here. So because of that, I would be doing a disservice to them if I didn't uplift the next people.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah.
KEEGAN HUDSON: And so, yeah, it's just trying to make the path a little bit easier, a little bit straighter for the next person who comes along.
KEEGAN HUDSON: That is so powerful. I love that. I'm going to remember that for a long time. The episode before this, we were talking about our alumni network and how you as a UVA Law student are going to be the member of UVA Law Alumni Network for life. And so I do think our alums take so much pride in always bettering the school. The fact that you've sold over 100 tickets, I mean, that's incredibly impressive to alums. It just shows that they want to give back and they want to help build those bridges for the next generation, so that's so great.
So I know spring break is next week, and thank you again for squeezing this recording in before you go off on break. I'm jealous because I, of course, do not get a spring break. So I'm curious if you have plans. Are you sticking around? Are you going somewhere?
KEEGAN HUDSON: So we're actually going somewhere. We're going to South Africa.
NATALIE BLAZER: What?
KEEGAN HUDSON: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: OK, man. Wow, now I'm really jealous.
KEEGAN HUDSON: Yeah. So it's cool. It's actually through BALSA.
NATALIE BLAZER: Oh!
KEEGAN HUDSON: Yeah, so this is like the Black Law Students Association international service trip. And it's something that our chapter puts on every year. We'll be working with Norton Rose Fulbright doing pro bono work in Cape Town. And so normally this is something that we do in December. This year it got pushed to spring break.
So it'll be five of us all expense paid to Cape Town.
NATALIE BLAZER: Oh my gosh.
KEEGAN HUDSON: To do some pro bono work. So I'm looking forward to it. It'll be my first time overseas.
NATALIE BLAZER: Oh!
KEEGAN HUDSON: So freaking out about that a little bit.
NATALIE BLAZER: Oh, it's going to be so great!
KEEGAN HUDSON: I'm looking forward to it.
NATALIE BLAZER: And to do such important work. Well, that's good for you. That's just going to be once in a lifetime. I'm so happy for you that you're going. And when you come back, please show us pictures.
KEEGAN HUDSON: Will do, definitely.
NATALIE BLAZER: So Keegan, because our listeners mostly, I think, are applying to law school, they are either waiting to hear back from schools right now. Or perhaps they're thinking about a future cycle or whatever it is. So given that you yourself did this not too long ago, I'm curious what advice do you have for folks going through that.
KEEGAN HUDSON: Yeah, I guess I'd say a couple of things. The first is, reach out to somebody who's done it before. Second would be reach out to somebody who's done it recently. And third is just be very intentional. Like do your research. When you apply to schools, this was, I guess, the one unintentional thing that I did my second time. Like, I applied to 25 schools.
NATALIE BLAZER: Oh my God!
KEEGAN HUDSON: Because I was so scared from the first time, right? Like applying to like four schools on the first route.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah. I'm so proud we got you out of 25 or however many that you ultimately got admitted to. That's amazing.
KEEGAN HUDSON: Yeah, I spread the net pretty far. And in that, I didn't really consider whether I wanted to go to these schools or not. I'm like, OK, this is a good law school, I'm going to apply. I would definitely recommend really researching on the front end. And I think that's probably the one mistake that I made the second time around. It's not the worst mistake to make, apply to too many schools, but you can save that application money.
And just, I guess, if you're listening to this for an upcoming cycle, as you're getting your documents together, make sure somebody looks at them, first of all. But when you're writing a personal statement, when you're writing any kind of statement, when you're writing anything that is going to admissions, make sure you're really candid. Make sure you're honest because I think, especially institutions like UVA, Admissions does so good in this regard, they're very intentional in who they let in.
And so the more candid you are and the more intentional you are about really giving a small demonstration of who you are and what you can provide outside of the classroom or why you're trying to be in these spaces, I think that'll go a long way instead of just trying to put all your accomplishments on two pieces of paper.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah. I will say, before every show, when I'm interviewing a student, I do go back into our archives and read their application. And I have to say, reading your application and now knowing you, your application and the way you write and what you told us lines up absolutely perfectly with who you are as a person, and I would not say that about everybody.
So well done to you because that really struck me. I was like, this is Keegan. I was really struck by that. So you did that very well. Applicants tend to overthink and tell us things they think we want to hear or they use big words that they want here or whatever. They're just overthinking it. And I think you're true genuine voice came across so well in your written materials, so I did want to say that.
KEEGAN HUDSON: Thank you.
NATALIE BLAZER: Wow, Keegan, this was so fun. Thank you again for being on the show.
KEEGAN HUDSON: Thank you so much for having me. This was absolutely wonderful.
NATALIE BLAZER: This has been Admissible with me, Dean Natalie Blazer at the University of Virginia School of Law. My guest today was second-year law student Keegan Hudson. For more information about UVA Law, please visit law.virginia.edu. The next episode of Admissible will be out Friday, March 31.
In the meantime, you can follow the show on Instagram at @AdmissiblePodcast. Thanks so much for listening and please remember to rate the show wherever you listen to podcasts.
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