In honor of Veterans Day, Captain Trey Ratliff ’24 sits down with Dean Natalie Blazer to discuss his unique path to law school and how the UVA Law community has supported him along the way.
Transcript
TREY RATLIFF: I was just helping out with the planning, like really doing a lot of paper, PowerPoint, PowerPoint slides, and stuff like that, boring stuff.
NATALIE BLAZER: So even PowerPoint makes its way, too.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah. Oh, yeah. The army runs on PowerPoint, for sure.
NATALIE BLAZER: That's funny.
[UPBEAT MUSIC]
This is Admissible. I'm Natalie Blazer, dean of admissions at UVA Law. We're recording today's episode on Friday, November 10, the day before Veterans Day. I've wanted to do a show in honor of our military community for a long time now. And I'm so glad the timing worked out, that we get to record so close to Veterans Day with our guest, and release this episode just before Thanksgiving, a time when, I think, all of us are reflecting on what we're thankful for.
One thing I personally have always been, and will always be, extremely grateful for is our military service and sacrifice on behalf of our country and our freedoms. Having said all that, I'm very honored to introduce today's guest, third year law student Captain Trey Ratliff. Trey graduated from the United States Military Academy in 2018 with a degree in engineering management. Following graduation from West Point, Trey commissioned as a second lieutenant in the army.
He went on to US Army Ranger School, which I'm excited to discuss in a lot more detail in the show. After graduating from Army Ranger School, he was stationed with the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Two years later, he enrolled as a first year law student at UVA Law, and we've been lucky to have him as a member of our community ever since. Welcome to the show, Trey.
TREY RATLIFF: Hi. Thanks for having me.
NATALIE BLAZER: OK. Icebreaker, Trey.
TREY RATLIFF: All right.
NATALIE BLAZER: What are you currently reading for fun?
TREY RATLIFF: I just started a book by David McCullough. It's the Panama Canal book.
NATALIE BLAZER: Oh, nice.
TREY RATLIFF: I think it's called Bridge in the Seas.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah.
TREY RATLIFF: I'm literally like 20 pages in. But yeah, I really enjoy his writing.
NATALIE BLAZER: That's awesome.
TREY RATLIFF: I did 1776, and then John Adams biography this summer. So--
NATALIE BLAZER: Oh, great.
TREY RATLIFF: --kind of been tearing through his--
NATALIE BLAZER: It's always a toss-up when I talk to current law students because I know you all don't really have time to read for fun. But I still ask, just in case. And a lot of times, what you're reading in law school is fun, if you're enjoying your classes. and so on.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, I don't read as much as I should outside of school.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: Do you have a current favorite class?
TREY RATLIFF: I'm in social science and law with Professor Monahan and I really enjoyed that. It's my first--
NATALIE BLAZER: I love him.
TREY RATLIFF: It's my first course that's taught by a non-attorney. And it's completely different from any other law school class I've taken, so it's been really interesting, just some of the perspective from--
NATALIE BLAZER: From the social science angle.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, exactly.
NATALIE BLAZER: I took him in law school, a class called lawyers and happiness. And it was all about how lawyers can have a good work-life balance and all of that and all of like these kind of statistics and--
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, a lot of this stuff, when you hear it, you're like, duh, that makes sense. But then you're like, whoa, that's so crazy and just the correlation for some of this stuff.
NATALIE BLAZER: Absolutely.
TREY RATLIFF: It's really cool.
NATALIE BLAZER: OK, well. So I want to go back in time with your decision to attend West Point in the first place. So you're a high school student. I think you've played football.
TREY RATLIFF: I did.
NATALIE BLAZER: Right? So you're looking at where you can play football.
TREY RATLIFF: Right.
NATALIE BLAZER: So how did West Point-- how did you decide on West Point?
TREY RATLIFF: So my dad actually was a West Point grad. And he was a class of '88 and he played football as well. He did 20 years as an officer in the army. But his last eight, he did what was called-- basically, he worked for the North Carolina National Guard.
And so we lived right there in the Raleigh area pretty much my life, which was nice. And it's really rare for the military lifestyle. I really didn't move around growing up.
But with that being said, I always knew about West Point, but my dad was really good about never forcing that on me. He just was informative. And I think West Point's is one of those deals where you would never want to force someone into it. And then they'd just--
NATALIE BLAZER: Absolutely.
TREY RATLIFF: They get there, that's not a place you want to be stuck. But yeah, I was looking at schools. I think I took my official visits to University of Connecticut, UConn, University of Richmond, just some smaller schools.
And then I took one to West Point. And just being around the guys, the cadets on the football team, I knew that it was a good place. I knew I probably wouldn't have as much fun and party as much as I would at UConn or one of those schools, but I'm glad I had the foresight to see this is probably a good spot for me.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah.
TREY RATLIFF: So I did that.
NATALIE BLAZER: So for those who don't know, like me and like a lot of people who didn't go to West Point, what is it like?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah. It's definitely really regimented, obviously. Your first summer is like a crash course. It's called a Beast Barracks. It's like a crash course into the military. It's like a mini basic training just to--
NATALIE BLAZER: This is before you even start?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, it's like the summer before your freshman year.
NATALIE BLAZER: OK.
TREY RATLIFF: So they shave your head and do all this stuff, learn how to march, all that stuff. And then during the academic year, it's pretty normal to college life, I would say, minus that you're up early for breakfast formation. You take a ton of credits. West Point was originally founded to produce engineers for the army, and so pretty much everyone gets a bachelor in science.
And no matter what you major in, you have to do some engineering. You also have to take a lot of classes like boxing, just random, just historic West Point classes and military art and military history and stuff. So, you're taking well over 20 credits.
NATALIE BLAZER: Wow.
TREY RATLIFF: So it's much more like high school, like you eat breakfast and then you're pretty much in school until 4:00 PM.
NATALIE BLAZER: And are you also doing some sort of physical--
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, you take a ton of PE classes like swimming, boxing. You're doing that pretty much all four years. And then also, the big thing they say is every cadet's an athlete, so you're either on NCAA sport, a club sport, or you're doing intramurals. So every day, you're doing not only the schoolwork, but everyone's playing some sort of sport just because it's definitely important in the military to know how to work as a team.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah.
TREY RATLIFF: Both lead and be able to follow. And then I think team sports definitely instills that in people.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah. So, as you touched on before, my understanding is as you're nearing the end of your time, you have to decide like a branch of the army?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: So how does that work?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, so it's merit based. And then they have allotments for each branch. So I think there's 17 branches of the army or different jobs you can do as lieutenant in the army. And that ranges from being a helicopter pilot, an aviation.
You can do medical service, work in the hospital, Quartermaster, like supply, and then infantry and armors and tanks. So, your senior year, they rack and stack your class of 1,000, literally 1 to 1,000. And then you go through and just pick what job. And then if you're low in the class and they don't have the job you want--
NATALIE BLAZER: You're stuck with whatever.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, person 1,000 is doing whatever the thousand's choice was.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah.
TREY RATLIFF: And it works the same way for your first duty assignment. So they'll have like-- Fort Bragg, North Carolina has 50 little things-- you literally sit in your class like order of one to however many are in your branch and you walk up and grab. I got Alaska. I really wanted to go back to North Carolina. And luckily, I got Fort Bragg, so that was great.
NATALIE BLAZER: So it really, I mean, the work ethic, the incentive to work hard is really there.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah. That last year definitely feels not cutthroat, but you you're looking around and hoping you're doing the mental math.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah. So you chose infantry. So what does that mean exactly?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, so infantry is probably what you think of when you think of the army. It's like--
NATALIE BLAZER: I think of marching soldiers.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, basically.
NATALIE BLAZER: OK.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, classically. There's different things in the infantry. There are some vehicles-- I was in the 82nd Airborne Division, so it was airborne infantry. So it was paratroopers.
NATALIE BLAZER: It's wild.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: I can't even imagine. OK. So you chose infantry and then you went to US Army Ranger School.
TREY RATLIFF: Mm-hmm.
NATALIE BLAZER: OK. So right out of West Point. Does everyone who's going to go into the infantry do that, or that was an additional choice that you made?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah. So, right when you graduate, everyone goes to their basic officer leadership course or BOLC. I'm trying to flesh out the acronyms. I know there's a lot. And so for infantry, it's at Fort Benning, Georgia, which is now Fort Moore. The military just changed a bunch of their names that were based on Confederate leaders.
NATALIE BLAZER: I see.
TREY RATLIFF: Sorry, I'm like--
NATALIE BLAZER: I got it. No, it makes sense.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah. And so I did that for about a year and then I went to Ranger School, which is a pre-req for infantry officers, other branches do go. But they, at least, want-- all infantry officers to go and try to get your Ranger tab and be Ranger qualified.
NATALIE BLAZER: I don't even know where to start. It's like one of those things that you just see in the movies or you read about in books. You just are picturing hell, kind of.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: Right? So, what was it like?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, it was definitely tough. Luckily for me, I went with a lot of guys that I just graduated West Point with and had met there at Fort Benning for that year of training. And you go through it with them.
Ranger School, at the end of the day, you don't really learn any novel tactics or anything. It's more of a leadership course. And they just deprive you of food and sleep, so you're sleeping two hours a night and then you're just walking miles and miles, running these fake missions with different people rotating leadership.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah.
TREY RATLIFF: So the biggest thing you take away is just learning how other people act when they're starving and sleep-deprived. And then you also learn how you, as a leader, act when you're starving and sleep-deprived. So it's definitely interesting. It's about 60 days if you go straight through. I recycled, so I failed the first--
NATALIE BLAZER: Oh, man.
TREY RATLIFF: You have little three-week periods that you go through. The first one is there in Fort Benning. And then they have mountain phase, which is in the Appalachian Mountains. You learn some mountaineering stuff, run missions out there. And they have swamp phase in Florida, which is more of water-based. Yeah, you're walking through swamps.
NATALIE BLAZER: So, have you read any of Dave Goggins' books?
TREY RATLIFF: I have.
NATALIE BLAZER: OK.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: So I read his book where he talks about Army Ranger School and he failed and he had to come back. And there was times where they were out in the ocean. And it just sounds like-- you said you learn what you're like when you're sleep-deprived and food-deprived. So what did you learn from that time?
TREY RATLIFF: I was really hungry. I mean, there's a joke that everyone's either a hungry ranger or a sleepy ranger. What's going to affect you more, the lack of food or the lack of sleep? And there's people that fall asleep just standing up all the time.
And lack of sleep, for whatever reason, never really bothered me, but I was just starving. That's all I could think about. I have notebooks full where I was just writing about the different meals I wanted and just stuff like that.
NATALIE BLAZER: Oh, my god.
TREY RATLIFF: I think I lost about 45 pounds in those-- so it took me 80 so days.
NATALIE BLAZER: Wow.
TREY RATLIFF: So yeah, I was hungry.
NATALIE BLAZER: It's intense. I mean, people must get really sick, injured.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, you lose a lot of folks, people that just tap out.
NATALIE BLAZER: They got to go.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, too much. But yeah, you learn quickly how to work together to try to get through it. And then for infantry officers, it's almost like a pre-req. So I just didn't want to show up to my unit and not have the Ranger tab on my uniform. It's not necessary, but soldiers that you're leading notice, for sure.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah. How many people do you start with? And how many people finish it?
TREY RATLIFF: I want to say 200 starts up a class. I think it's 40% pass. Probably less for straight through. A lot of folks recycle just for different reasons. Either not getting their mission or they get hurt and have to try that phase again.
NATALIE BLAZER: My god. So, after Army Ranger School, that's when you go to Fort Bragg.
TREY RATLIFF: Mm-hmm.
NATALIE BLAZER: And now you're a lieutenant.
TREY RATLIFF: Yup.
NATALIE BLAZER: In the 82nd Airborne Division.
TREY RATLIFF: Right.
NATALIE BLAZER: OK. So you start there. And I think you were battalion assistant operations officer.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: So what does that mean? What were you doing when you first started at Fort Bragg?
TREY RATLIFF: So when you first show up, if there's not a platoon leader job open, you'll sit on battalion staff, which is a lot of higher-ranking officers and some NCOs that are basically working on planning and the logistics for different training events. It's like the staff function for that unit.
NATALIE BLAZER: So after a few months, you were promoted to rifle platoon leader. So, what does that mean? What does that role mean, really?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, so the platoon leader, for the infantry world, you're working a lot on radio and working how to actually maneuver the platoon.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah.
TREY RATLIFF: And stuff like that.
NATALIE BLAZER: So, I want you to tell the story that was-- was it three years ago? That I would have read this in your personal statement. You're 23 years old. It's New Year's Eve. You're watching college football. You're just being a 23-year-old. You're on holiday leave from the army, right? So you get what? Like a week or two off?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: After everything you've done, all the Army Ranger School, all of the hard work, you're just relaxing, watching college football. And then what happens?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah. So the 82nd Airborne Division's unique that their mission is there's what's called the immediate response force or the IRF. And their mission set is to deploy anywhere in the world in 18 hours. So you're always--
NATALIE BLAZER: That's-- I just want to pause and say, 18 hours to deploy anywhere in the world. So you have to be-- to say you have to be ready is like an understatement.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah. No, it's impressive, the logistics of it. But they rotate little subsets that are assigned to-- they're the ones that are actually on call on call. They hadn't done it since the '90s, like actually gotten the call to do it. So everybody was like, oh, don't worry about it. That never actually happens.
NATALIE BLAZER: That will never happen?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: Oh, my god.
TREY RATLIFF: We had a radius or something that we could go for our Christmas leave. So I went down to Charleston with some friends.
NATALIE BLAZER: Nice.
TREY RATLIFF: I was a month into getting my platoon as a platoon leader. There was nothing really going on in the world. There was no high alert that they told us before we left. And then the attack happened at the embassy in Baghdad. I think it was an Iranian-backed terrorist group basically attacked. And so we got--
NATALIE BLAZER: Attacked the US embassy in Baghdad.
TREY RATLIFF: Yes.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah.
TREY RATLIFF: Yes.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah.
TREY RATLIFF: And so we got the call. It's called a Green Corvette in the 82nd Airborne Division. It's no joke, like everyone get back, grab your stuff. We're leaving.
And yeah, I was drinking with my buddies watching the college football playoff or whatever. And I was like, I guess I'm leaving. I made a cup of coffee and I headed out.
NATALIE BLAZER: Good grief. Something the vast majority of people will never, I don't even think, begin to relate to. That's wild.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: So you drink your coffee, you go back. Do you always have a bag packed?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, because that's our mission, they have a system or they always have your basic load ready to go. And then they have different tiers of readiness. So there was one unit that wasn't even allowed to leave Fort Bragg. And so literally within 24 hours, they were in Iraq.
For those of us who were there at the time, just because it hasn't happened in a long time, you always heard myths of like-- I think they had done it in Panama or something. But you're like, there's no way they can actually get people out the door. But they did it. In 18 hours, they were in the Middle East ready to do whatever--
NATALIE BLAZER: That is just wild.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: And so you go over there. And how-- I can't-- to say what was that like, I don't even know. That doesn't really cover the question. But just explain what you did over there, how long you were there, what that experience was like.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah. So we got there probably January 2 and then we were on one of the lower tiers of readying. We weren't the first ones in. That battalion, they were already in Baghdad. And then we got stuck in Kuwait, just waiting.
The higher order was like, well, we don't know what you're going to do, but we don't want them to go back to the States yet. And then about two months in, there was a rocket attack or something in Iraq, so they wanted to up the US presence. So my battalion ended up going. And we were in the Baghdad area of Iraq for about 10 months.
NATALIE BLAZER: Were you scared at this point?
TREY RATLIFF: Not really-- it's weird just when you're in the moment and you're with everyone, especially you're with a lot of NCOs who have cut their teeth during the GWOT, the Global War on Terrorism. My platoon sergeant had two Purple Hearts and had been to Iraq and Afghanistan five times.
NATALIE BLAZER: You're surrounded by people you really trust.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, for sure. And with those people around you, that they have the experience, they're not going to let you fail. So, it was also crazy because that was January 2020. So while we were there, COVID started happening.
NATALIE BLAZER: Did you have to quarantine in Baghdad? How did that even work?
TREY RATLIFF: We just didn't know what it was. We obviously heard about it, but we had no idea about the degree of what was going on in America.
NATALIE BLAZER: Right.
TREY RATLIFF: Because when you're in a combat zone, there was no masks or anything.
NATALIE BLAZER: Right.
TREY RATLIFF: I think like they told us to wash our hands. That was about the extent of it. I mean, looking back on it, I guess it was nice. I wasn't here for-- we got back in May of 2020, so we missed, I guess, the full grocery store.
NATALIE BLAZER: Right.
TREY RATLIFF: And stuff like that.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah, that was annoying, but you were in combat. I think I would take staying home for a couple of months.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah. My mom loves the story. We got back and I got to my house there at Bragg and my parents were in town. And I was like, so all the bars and all the restaurants are closed. It's just like yeah, I was like, but it's only for another week. And they're like, no, there's no timeline on it.
NATALIE BLAZER: All you want to do is come home and do your fun America things. Oh, man.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, that was weird.
NATALIE BLAZER: That's a bummer. I'm sorry. OK. So, you're over there, you come back. OK, it's May 2020. I also have to say you were rated as the number one platoon leader in the Airborne Division. How does that happen?
TREY RATLIFF: Definitely not in the division-- in my battalion.
NATALIE BLAZER: Or in the company. In the company.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: Sorry, sorry.
TREY RATLIFF: In one of my units.
NATALIE BLAZER: Is that just like-- what is that based on? Because it's not grades anymore. It's not academics anymore, right? What do you measure it on, I guess?
TREY RATLIFF: It's just your superior officers and NCOs-- like any job, it's a performance rating they give you. I was lucky the company and the specific platoon I went to, I had really good NCOs. They helped me out. And a lot of times, it's an interesting dynamic.
We all have non-commissioned officers who have been doing it for 10, 15 years. And then you get a 23-year-old who doesn't really know anything but they're in good shape. They show up and they're the ones that are technically the legal authority. But you don't even know half of what they know in their experiences.
NATALIE BLAZER: Right.
TREY RATLIFF: And so I was fortunate to have non-commissioned officers who actually mentored me and taught me. And I think you have to have the humility to not think that you know everything no matter what you've done.
NATALIE BLAZER: Well, it sounds like West Point taught you that.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: Right? You're not special. You're here as a team member, right?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I think that is-- part of the formula is just knowing when to shut up and listen and even knowing that that 18-year-old private, you might think you know more than him, but he's a machine gunner and he's been doing that for six months. He knows how to operate that weapon better than anyone. And he can teach you stuff about the tactics. So, just being not afraid to learn and just trying your best.
NATALIE BLAZER: The longer we talk, the more I'm thinking, I think everybody needs to go into the military to learn these lessons.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: Like, you don't know everything. You're part of a team. You should be humble. You should listen to people who you can't necessarily assume you're smarter than or more accomplished than.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: So that's great. OK. So you are now thinking about law school. OK. So, what is it that led you to, I guess, apply to law school?
TREY RATLIFF: So actually, in Iraq, I ran into a JAG and he had a Ranger tab and I could tell he was an infantry officer at some point. Just the stuff he had on his uniform, I could tell. And then he told me he was a JAG and I never thought about the JAG Corps, really.
They're pretty far removed from the platoon level. And so he told me his background. He'd been on the same track, commissioned as an infantry officer and then got the FLEP, which is that Funded Legal Education Program. So, he got his law school paid for and then was working as a JAG there in the 82nd.
And so that sparked an interest in mine. Like I was saying, I loved the infantry, but it's a tough life to keep doing that for 20 or so years. Thank God for our country that we have those people that had spent 30 years as almost non-stop state of war, the people that had six or seven years of total deployments. I just didn't think that was for me. I didn't want to do it for the rest of my life.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah.
TREY RATLIFF: I had other interests. I never really thought no lawyers in the family or anything, but thought I wanted to do some more school, figure it out. And so I took the LSAT and applied.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah. And lucky for us, obviously, you decided to attend UVA Law.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: So what factors-- if you can think back to your application cycle and the schools you had applied to, what factors led you to choose UVA?
TREY RATLIFF: So my process was definitely pretty rushed because FLEP has its own application. And then you find out in December if you get picked up for that, so if you're actually going to start law school that next fall. So I kind of--
NATALIE BLAZER: So I don't think I knew that. So you applied for-- I do want to talk about this for a second. So Funded Legal Education Program?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: So you applied to get the funding. And then once you learn that you get the funding, which, by the way, if people don't know, is very competitive. Because each branch of the military only has a limited finite number of FLEPs, basically, to give out, right?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, it's really-- I think it's 20 a year. It fluctuates on funding.
NATALIE BLAZER: That's very competitive, to come out of the army and get one of the 20, basically, fully-funded legal education. OK, so you found out in December that you were one of the 20, that you were going to get your law school education paid for. So then did you apply to schools?
TREY RATLIFF: Yup.
NATALIE BLAZER: OK.
TREY RATLIFF: So I had a-- I think I had maybe applied to a few before then. I just didn't want to drop a ton of money.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah, I get it. I get it.
TREY RATLIFF: On stuff. And I knew nothing about law school. We had no lawyers in the family. So I just did all the Google searches and blanket applied. And, obviously, UVA, great school.
And then also, the JAG School being right there and it was close to North Carolina. So luckily, I went through that, took a visit, I think, in February of that year and came up and loved it. And it's been a great choice, yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: And so we've talked a lot about JAG, another acronym, the Judge Advocate General School. So, the JAG School is right next to UVA Law. I think that is a huge benefit for any military-connected person who wants to go to law school. So Judge Advocate General Corps is basically, if you are a JAG, you're a military attorney. Is that a simplistic way to put it?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: OK.
TREY RATLIFF: For sure.
NATALIE BLAZER: So can you explain for people who don't know, what is the benefit of being next to the JAG School, if you're interested in that path? Did you ever take classes there? Did you interact with it?
TREY RATLIFF: I think the biggest benefit is obviously the administration just familiar with it, especially Ms. Jennifer Hulvey is the best person I've ever worked with. The army is notorious for just really fumbling paperwork and stuff. And from the moment I got into UVA and committed and said I wanted to come here, I didn't have to do anything.
NATALIE BLAZER: Wow.
TREY RATLIFF: And I know through talking to other vets the same thing with the GI Bill funding, all that stuff, Ms. Hulvey is just amazing. And I think that probably has to do with the proximity and working with the JAG School. It's just too easy to go next door and figure out any type of those questions.
NATALIE BLAZER: For those who might remember from season 1, Jennifer Hulvey, in our financial aid office, was on. And yes, I'm extremely proud of how basically knowledgeable and responsive our financial aid office is to every admitted student and every actually prospective applicant, but especially with our military population.
OK. So, you enroll at UVA Law. You're funded by the army, which is great. So then you've mentioned that you're commissioning with the Judge Advocate General Corps with JAG after graduation. So what will that look like? Where are you going? What are you doing?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah. So for most army JAGs or direct commissionees, I'm sure you know they recruit from law schools. I don't know the exact percentage. But with only the FLEP being 20 a year, I'm sure well over 90% come basically straight from law school.
Their first job will be as a JAG. So I'll fall into that cohort. And so we'll go to what's called direct commissioning course, which serves as a basic training for those folks and it's their introduction to the military.
And then same with our doctors that come straight from medical school, I think they all go to that. And then after that, I'll-- that's actually at Fort Benning, Georgia. And then next fall, I'll go to what's called the Officer Basic Course at the JAG School.
NATALIE BLAZER: OK.
TREY RATLIFF: Which is basically where they take the people that have just entered the JAG Corps who are all attorneys. And they teach them the basics of military justice and UCMJ, and that's about six months.
NATALIE BLAZER: What does that stand for?
TREY RATLIFF: The Uniform Code of Military Justice.
NATALIE BLAZER: OK.
TREY RATLIFF: It's like the military law, I guess. And then after that, I'll go to my first duty assignment as a JAG.
NATALIE BLAZER: And do you know where that will be?
TREY RATLIFF: Not yet.
NATALIE BLAZER: Or they'll assign you somewhere?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah. I think we put in a preference list this spring and we find out this spring.
NATALIE BLAZER: So, the movie A Few Good Men, that comes to mind, OK? So you will be dealing with legal matters that come up in the armed services, right? Is that a good way to describe it?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah. Yeah, it's basically one stop shop legal for soldiers. Then obviously, UCMJ has a lot of unique aspects. During the Summers for FLEP, I went to now Fort Liberty, Fort Bragg, this past summer. And then it was Fort Lee in Richmond, my first. I'm not sure what it's called now.
NATALIE BLAZER: No worries.
TREY RATLIFF: But you do a small, not even an internship. You'll put the uniform back on and you'll go work in their JAG office there. But yeah, this previous summer, I saw a lot of litigation, a lot of criminal work.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah.
TREY RATLIFF: And some courts-martials, which is basically a military trial, criminal trial. And so that was really cool. But yeah, I definitely was thinking about A Few Good Men.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah.
TREY RATLIFF: I think it's obviously a little bit hyped up in the movie.
NATALIE BLAZER: Well, of course.
TREY RATLIFF: In some place.
NATALIE BLAZER: It's got to be.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: It's got to be. So you'll do that for what? At least eight years?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah. I can probably get out of the army, or my obligation will be completed at the 14 or 15-year mark of service.
NATALIE BLAZER: OK, OK. All right. So I don't even want to talk about career goals beyond that, because that's a long time.
TREY RATLIFF: I try not to think of it. It's obviously unique at school because all my peers are doing all these awesome things and jobs. But also, it's--
NATALIE BLAZER: You're doing pretty awesome.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah, and it's been an awesome-- you can ask any of my friends. I've probably been the least stressed person at law school. I've known my job and I've had a paycheck this whole time.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty nice.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: And definitely well deserved after all the things you've been through. OK. So, I want to spend our remaining time just talking about life at UVA Law as a student.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: Has it been what you expected?
TREY RATLIFF: I guess I came in with no expectations just because not only was I not a pre-- I did engineering and I was at West Point, so this has been my first normal college experience. This is obviously very different from West Point. But it's been really great.
NATALIE BLAZER: So I want to talk about Virginia Law Veterans, which is our student organization here on grounds. I love-- I call them VLV. So, tell us a little bit about what VLV, Virginia Law Veterans, does in the community.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah. So VLV is obviously pretty small as far as the affinity groups go. I think we probably have 20 to 30 active. But I think the biggest thing, looking at my 1L year, it was just helpful to have that group where I knew that people had some common experiences with me, spoke the same language, had perspective of that military background.
Because it is such a culture shock, especially coming directly from the military. It's just nice to have people that have done some of the same things. So we do internal get-togethers, stuff like that. Obviously, softball team every other group.
This year, I'm the vice president. We've worked on bridging the gap with the Darden Military Association. It was a great presence. And then also, we've reached out and gotten together with the undergrad vets. And that's been awesome to bridge that gap this year.
And I think some of the most impactful things that we can do is I saw some statistic about the civilian military gap that is basically-- I don't know the exact number, but thinking back World War II and Vietnam era, 90 or so odd percent had someone in the family or knew someone who was a veteran. And now that number is drastically decreased.
So I think it's 10% or 15% know someone. Some of the best conversations I've had with my peers is just what does the army do? What did you do? What was your job?
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah.
TREY RATLIFF: And that helps bridge that gap and makes people understand and respect the military a little more.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yes.
TREY RATLIFF: And same thing learning from your civilian peers who have these different experiences.
NATALIE BLAZER: Right. I love that you said that. That's exactly why I wanted to do this episode, actually. Because I hope it will be nice for military applicants to hear from a member of our veteran community. But I also think for people who really don't understand what it's like or know where you've come from, I think they want to know and should know.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: What do you think is the biggest misconception about the military? Or about veterans or anything related to that.
TREY RATLIFF: I think the biggest misconception is probably just how many different experiences the military provides and then the different jobs. There's people that are doing cyber warfare in the army, people that are doctors. I'm sure that people think that there's some sort of ideology or perspective that everyone in the military follows. But at the end of the day, when you take off the uniform, everyone's just a person. I'm still a 27-year-old guy just like everyone else.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah, yeah. If it's not obvious already, I love military applicants. I think they make great law students and great lawyers.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: There is a perspective there. And like you said, a resilience. And you're not going to crumble at a B in a class, right?
TREY RATLIFF: Mm-hmm.
NATALIE BLAZER: You've seen worse things. You've come back from harder experiences, right?
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah. And you're not afraid to get called on in class. That was like--
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah.
TREY RATLIFF: I was like, oh, that's the big thing.
NATALIE BLAZER: That's the big stressor? Yeah. Do you have a favorite moment or memory from your time at UVA Law?
TREY RATLIFF: We've just made a great group of friends here. I moved here with my girlfriend at the time, now wife. We've met people, non-military folks that have just become some of our best friends and just going to sporting events, just stuff I didn't really get to do at West Point. It's been really fun. I've gotten that college experience out of me.
NATALIE BLAZER: I'm so glad.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah.
NATALIE BLAZER: I'm so glad to hear that. Do you have any advice for anyone out there who's in the military right now or is in the veteran community who's thinking about applying to law school or they're considering going to law school?
TREY RATLIFF: One thing I would say is I think, as you were saying, I think a lot of folks with a military background have a lot of humility especially in their experiences. For me, I pretty much was in the army for three, three and a half years before this. I think my experience is so limited compared even to other people at the law school. But I think I would say, don't be afraid or don't be ashamed to not hype that experience up, but tell people what you did.
NATALIE BLAZER: Such a great point.
TREY RATLIFF: It helps people understand. Don't just say like, oh, yeah, I was in the army, I was in the marines or whatever, but explain what you did. It helps people understand each other, for sure.
NATALIE BLAZER: Absolutely. This is your time to tell your story, right? Don't be so humble in your application. We're rooting for you always, right? We have the most respect. And a lot of people's military experiences are what have informed their decision to go to law school.
TREY RATLIFF: Yeah. I had a conversation with someone in my first year who was a VLV alumni. And he said now he's a partner in the hiring process. And he said, we love hiring veterans. For one thing, they're probably going to show up on time.
NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah.
TREY RATLIFF: They're going to work hard and try their best. And no matter what you ask them, it's not going to be the hardest thing that they've done. And I think that's so valuable, especially today.
NATALIE BLAZER: Well, Trey, geez, Captain Ratliff,
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This was so, so helpful for me, for, I hope, all of our listeners. I love what you said about bridging the gap. I have wanted, like I said, to honor Veterans Day for a long time on this show. And I'm so happy that it worked out for you to come. So, thank you for being here and thank you for your service.
TREY RATLIFF: Oh, thank you. Appreciate it.
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This has been Admissible, with me, Dean Natalie Blazer, at the University of Virginia School of Law. My guest today was 3L Trey Ratliff. For more information about UVA Law, please visit law.virginia.edu.
The next episode of Admissible will be out soon. In the meantime, you can follow the show on Instagram at @admissiblepodcast. Thank you so much for listening, and please remember to rate the show wherever you listen to podcasts.
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