‘Admissible’ S2 E3: Checking In With a 1L

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NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: I'm curious if you've had that shift in the way that you see the world. Suddenly everything's a contract and everything is subject matter jurisdiction. And has that happened for you?

SUBJECT: Yes, absolutely. Everything is an issue now out in the real world. My partner's in Philadelphia, so I take the Amtrak a lot from Charlottesville to Philadelphia. And as you know about half of all torts cases are about trains. And every time I'm on that train, I'm just thinking torts, torts, torts.

NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: Oh my gosh, I love that.

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This is admissible. I'm Natalie Blazer, dean of admissions at UVA Law. I'm so excited for our show today because we are talking about my favorite part of law school, 1L year. I know it's hard to believe, but it's really true. We're going to check in with one of our fabulous first year law students here at UVA, right around the halfway point of that first year, to see how everything's going so far. Before I introduce our guests, though, I want to offer a little bit of background as to why I decided to do an episode about the 1L year.

I have been speaking with and counseling law school applicants for almost 10 years now, and I've noticed that the number one thing prospective law students are intimidated by is this dreaded first year, the 1L year. So I want to start by separating out the myths and urban legends about 1L year that are absolutely not true from the parts of 1L year that, quite frankly, are true and can be a little scary.

I also want to say, I think it's good to be intimidated sometimes. You don't want to go into a new situation too confident thinking you know everything, especially when it comes to law school. But let's talk briefly about why 1L year can be a scary prospect for folks out there who have not gone through it yet.

So for starters, you're taking a pretty substantial course load. You're going to be in the classroom a lot, taking courses that are notoriously challenging. They come with a lot of reading assignments. So the sheer workload itself can seem daunting. Right off the bat, you go into 1L year knowing that you're going to be working super, super hard. And that can just be a little bit scary.

Second, there's the prospect of cold calling in class. If you've never experienced the socratic method of teaching in undergrad, that can absolutely be nerve wracking. Third, your performance during the first year of law school, your grades, arguably the single most important factor when it comes to finding a great job.

That's not only because employers care about grades, they do, but also because it's super important that you invest the time and energy into really drilling down on those doctrinal courses and making sure you're learning them as best you can. So whether that translates into an A in the class or not, you need to the material down pat. It's called the foundation curriculum for a reason. The rest of law school builds upon what you learn in 1L, and believe me, you don't want to fall behind.

So finally, most incoming students are used to being at the top of their class, getting straight A's, graduating summa cum laude all of that stuff. I know this because I read all of your law school applications every single day. I see your transcripts. I see all the honors you've received.

But what happens is some of these high achievers arrive to law school and assume they're going to enjoy that same level of success that they've always had as a student with the same level of work and that's just not always going to be the case. Most of the time, that's not going to be the case.

I try to warn incoming law students about this ahead of time and ensure them that this is, in fact, not only fine, but it's a good thing. You're graded on a strict curve, that's a huge part of it, but it's also good to be surrounded by people who are smarter than you. As we're going to learn from our guest today, you're going to be learning from the peers around you just as much as you're learning from listening to your lectures and reading the case law.

So just to recap, there are some very valid reasons to look at your first year of law school as a daunting prospect. And that's OK. You want to give 1L the respect it deserves. But there are also so many amazing things about the 1L year and a lot of reasons why it won't actually be as bad as you're picturing it in your head. I promise, 1L all year really is a wonderful experience, filled with hard work, yes, but also a lot of fun.

Having said all of that, I am thrilled to introduce our guest today, first year law student Mackenzie Quebec. Originally from Wisconsin, Mackenzie graduated from Rice University in 2019 with a bachelor's degree in chemistry, policy studies, and Latin American studies, and a minor in poverty and justice. Prior to matriculating at UVA Law, Mackenzie spent two years teaching at the Boys Latin Charter High School in Philadelphia as a Teach for America Corps member.

I remember interviewing and admitting Mackenzie almost a year ago now. I remember she was doing TFA. And aside from a very serendipitous run in on the downtown mall a few months ago, I haven't gotten to catch up with Mackenzie about her time here. So I'm super excited to have her on the show today. Welcome to Admissable, Mackenzie.

SUBJECT: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: So this season, I have been starting every episode with a little fun fact that I like to ask every guest on the show. I don't tell them what it is ahead of time. Mackenzie, I want to know, what would be your last meal on Earth?

SUBJECT: Oh my goodness, that's a really hard question. I think my last meal might be Torchy's tacos, which sounds like a terrible answer, but Torchy's tacos was a staple in my college years in Texas. And when I visited UVA Law for the first time and saw that there was a Torchy's Tacos here, I immediately was like, it's meant to be. And I have a lot of memories associated with Torchy's Tacos and the tacos aren't that bad. So that might be my answer.

NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: I think that's a great answer. My team loves Torchy's. We order from there quite a bit. So great answer. Mackenzie, you had work experience after college, was there a certain moment in time or several moments strung together that you realized you wanted to pursue law school?

SUBJECT: Yeah. So I didn't really start thinking about law school seriously until I graduated from college. I was really lucky that right after college I was afforded the opportunity to do an International Fellowship that gave me a lot of time to reflect on what was important to me, both in life and in a career, and came to the conclusion that I was looking for a few things out of a career.

One, where I would always be able to learn new things; two, a career that didn't have to necessarily be linear; three, a career where I could still apply all of the critical logical problem solving skills that I loved developing in my undergrad classes; and finally, a career where I could engage with the causes that I was most passionate about. And so that reflective process was really when I started considering law school.

Before diving head first into the commitment, that is going to law school, I really considered graduate work in public health or education. But I took three years off after undergrad, and at the end of that time, really felt like a law degree was the only thing that, for me, personally was going to be able to check all four of those boxes.

NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: I think that's common, especially for folks who do TFA, Teach for America. You're teaching, yes, and that's an unbelievably valuable service, and I know often underappreciated and extremely, extremely hard work, but I think a lot of teachers realize the systemic issues while they're teaching. And I have seen many a personal statement that talk about their drive to law school from there.

So I remember very clearly that beginning of March, so late in the process, you sent why UVA statement tell me about that decision because a lot of those are rolling in right now to our office. It's beginning of February, but February, March is when I see this. Tell us why you decided to do that.

SUBJECT: Yeah. So I'll preface by saying that I think I was very lucky in this regard. But my decision cycle was very slow and steady. I started applying in mid-october, I think submitted my last applications late December, and I started having decisions trickle in every few weeks starting late October through, it must have been April.

But that was actually great for me because in between each decision, I was really able to dive into the admitted students materials, information sessions, connect with students from different schools that I'd been admitted to. And through this process of learning more about the law school student experience-- and also, I learned a lot through this about the endless options for legal career paths out there.

My checklist for what I was looking for in a law school really evolved. So by the time March rolled around, I had created a new list of criteria to help me decide which school I should attend. And as I started narrowing down my options, I remember thinking through that list and saying to myself, well, I haven't heard from UVA yet, but I think the school would be a really good fit for me and what I'm looking for. So I did more research and decided, yes, that all things considered, UVA would really be a top choice. And so I wrote up a short letter of continued interest and sent it and just hoped for the best.

NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: We've had guests on before who have done that exact same thing. And clearly, since they're students here now, it does work out. So for anyone listening out there, if you haven't heard back from UVA or another school you're interested in, you have nothing to lose by sending in a letter just updating them that you're still interested.

And in your case, I love what you said. You weren't just doing it to get another letter of admission. You were doing it because your thought process had evolved and you were gathering more and more information. And it made perfect sense and I think that authenticity came through.

I always tell people, send it in if it's genuine. I've gotten a couple of letters of continued interest this cycle that are just, I'm writing to reiterate my interest. Well, OK, but that, to me, just says you haven't heard back yet and you want to be admitted. I would much rather hear the thought process, like, what you had. So that's great.

So now, I really want to get into the meat of this show, which is talking about the 1L year. And I would love for you, Mackenzie, to tell us about the first semester of law school, arguably the toughest part of law school that you have completed. So congratulations. Tell us a little bit about your section, your classes. Is this what you expected? Were there any surprises?

SUBJECT: Yeah. So I'm in the best 1L section, which is section J, but I think all students at UVA would say that. Here at UVA we have about 30 people in a small section, and we get to take two classes just with our small section and then three classes with another co-section.

So my section had civil procedure just with our small section, and it really bonded us. We get along really well. Everyone is really friendly and inclusive. Even when we're in our Uber competitive softball games, everyone in our section was always encouraged to get out on the field and hit, even myself who everyone knew was going to strikeout. So this section has been a really, really wonderful part of the experience. And we have reps from our section that also schedule social events with other sections to get to people across the school. So it's been a really positive experience.

We also have really fantastic peer advisors that have been really helpful in walking us through just everything 1L. They really keep us abreast of when we should start outlining, when we should start meeting with career services, applying for different jobs, what to expect during the exam season, and a few of my peer advisors even hopped on the phone with me over winter break when I was freaking out about the internship application process to walk me through their process last year. They really go above and beyond to support us. It's really wonderful.

NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: Mackenzie, I'll jump in really quick just to explain the peer advising. So each small section has six peer advisors assigned. So that's three, 2L's in three, 3L's. And what McKenzie is describing, exactly, was my own experience. I think a lot of 1L's, which is, they really are helping guide you. I myself applied to be a PA based on my experience with my own peer advisors. And doing that, my 2L and 3L year was extremely rewarding. You get to pay it forward, give back. So I love that they have been so helpful to you. OK, sorry, keep going

SUBJECT: My section also has such an excellent group of professors for our 1L fall, which I'm really grateful for. Not only were they all excellent instructors, but I really appreciated how much our professors invested in us outside of the classroom. Our civil procedure professor, for example, took everyone in our section out to dinner in Charlottesville in small groups to get to know us better. Our criminal law professor, every weekend, sent us reminders to get outside and explore the area, and just encouraged us to prioritize our mental health.

Multiple professors invited students to their homes for Thanksgiving, who didn't have plans, and our contracts professor even threw the first pitch at our first softball game, which was a great experience. So that's been really wonderful. Of course, the workload, I think, is the most daunting and hardest part about 1L fall. I think I came in expecting law school to be a lot of work. So I wouldn't say that I was surprised by the workload, but there was definitely a very steep learning curve.

I remember seeing my first assignment for civil procedure and thinking, Oh, 40 pages. That's not too bad. I've read 40 pages before. And then very quickly realized that 40 pages in a law school case book is not the same as 40 pages in a novel or even reading for undergrad. But everyone adjusts and gets faster and it's really amazing comparing how far we've come to even just a few months ago when we were starting our 1L fall semester.

NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: So you talked about the workload, and earlier when we were talking about the scary elements of 1L year, I think a huge part of that is also, unlike most undergrad classes, with law school, your entire grade, for the most part, rests on one final exam.

So you're working, working, working, you're really having no indication of how you're doing or how you're absorbing the information, and then boom, you have a final exam and you have all of your finals in this two-week period. So before we go in and hear about your own personal experience with final exams, can you just explain for folks who may not know, how are law school exams different from undergrad exams?

SUBJECT: So all of our exams at UVA typically revolve around an issue spotter. So you'll have to take an issue spotter, which consists of a fact pattern, and write an essay about the issues that you see within the fact pattern and how they would potentially be resolved by the court. Some professors also have multiple choice exams or have a combination of issue spotter essays plus multiple choice questions, but that was not the case in my experience.

Some professors also let you use your outlines and your casebook during your exam. Most of my professors did, though, other professors do have what we call closed book exams, which means that you would have to memorize your outline, if you made one, before the exam, though, of course, you would that at the very beginning of the semester and be able to plan accordingly.

NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: Tell us a little bit about that process. How did you approach it? What was it like for you?

SUBJECT: I, as a chemistry major in undergrad, really was very nervous about the final exam season because people had talked about having to write so much in such a short period of time. I didn't really come from a writing background. I had no idea what outlining was or how to start. But that was another place where the peer advisors were really helpful and walking us through what an outline is, when you should start creating it, how to use it as you're preparing for an exam.

And so I started outlining early just because I was really nervous and didn't know what an outline was. So I started over our fall break, which was about mid-october. I then did an outline again until Thanksgiving break. I wish I had been a little bit more consistent about it during that time period.

But even getting a little bit of it out in the way in October, I think, made me a lot more confident come exam time because I knew what I was doing. I'd reduced my anxiety and just allowed myself to have more time to do practice exams and take care of myself during finals as a result of having started early. So I would definitely encourage everyone to do that.

My strategy for studying was to make an extra large outline with all of my notes from the course, all of my notes from the reading, all the really smart nuggets that my classmates had said in their cold calls or in the hallway when we were discussing cases, that I could control find if necessary come exam time. And then synthesize that into a more medium sized outline and then a smaller outline and then finally, an attack outline, which is basically a checklist of all the issues you want to make sure that you don't forget to address on an exam.

And that strategy was really helpful for me. I think the repetition and synthesis really ingrained all of the concepts into my brain. And come time for the exams, I actually didn't really rely on my outlines at all because I had gone over them so many times. So I think one piece of advice I would add in there is making your own outlines for your first semester, at least in my experience, was really helpful because it forced me to learn the material backwards and forwards.

I also studied a lot with groups towards the end of the semester and that was really helpful as well. My class is just full of brilliant people. I remember going over practice exams and everyone in my group would spot issues that everyone else in the group hadn't spotted.

And so it was just invaluable to be able to learn how other people's brain works, how they were spotting these issues, and how they were applying them given everything we'd learned. So I'd really highly recommend, no matter where you go, to find a study group to work through different problems with.

NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: So many good takeaways there. I think, first, making your own outline, I think that's important to highlight because you are going to have almost infinite access to outlines from your PAs, from other folks in your class that you think, Oh, well, they're really smart. I should read their outline.

The learning is in the doing. And so yes, maybe taking bits and pieces from what other people say in a study group, things like that, but doing it, like said. You barely relied on your outlines by the end. That shows how much you really invested in the actual creating of the outline.

Also the study groups. I want to say something about that. Everybody learns a little bit differently and everybody picks up things, like you said, that you don't pick up. But also what I found is, until you have to explain it out loud to somebody, you might think you know it, but it's so, so valuable to actually try to explain in your own words because you can know things on paper, but it's so different from really being able to discuss it and really internalize it. So I think that's great

OK, so you were almost two weeks into the spring semester at this point. So you've really just started the back half of your 1L year. For folks out there who don't know, second half of 1L year, you still have three foundation courses, constitutional law, property, and the second half of legal research and writing. But also, as a 1L UVA, you get to choose two electives. So I'm very curious what you're taking, how you decided, how that whole process worked.

SUBJECT: So in our 1L fall semester, I think we got to choose our electives in early November. And essentially, you go in and rank 10 to 15 different courses in order that you would really love to take. And of course, 2L's and 3L's get first dibs on classes. I was not expecting to get any of my top choices and I did, which I was really excited about.

So I'm taking internet law just because it sounded really cool. We're learning about topics like content moderation and social media, discussing different areas of the law, like intellectual property and privacy. And the professor for that course also worked as corporate counsel for Microsoft in Amazon before becoming a professor. So it's been really exciting to learn from a former practitioner with such unique work experience. His professional background just adds so much to the class. So I've really enjoyed internet law so far.

And then I'm also taking criminal investigations. In part, I chose criminal investigations because I really enjoyed engaging in discussions about constitutional interpretation and civil procedure this fall and I knew that criminal investigations was going to involve a lot of that higher order thinking.

The professor for criminal investigations, professor Armacost, was also my torts professor in the fall and I loved my torts class. So I was very excited about the opportunity to take a class with her again. But there are so many classes that I want to take. You can't just squeeze them into 1L, but it's endless.

NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: I also had Armacost for torts.

SUBJECT: Oh, wow.

NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: Oh, she's just the best. She and I still meet for lunch and I still get so excited to see her. She really is one of my favorite people at UVA Law. So it's great to continue building that relationship, and her crim investigations class is great, so.

OK, so we've talked a lot about the academics, and obviously for good reason. It's really, the focus of 1L year should be the focus for all the reasons I mentioned at the top of the show. But a lot of times people ask me in interviews, what's a common trait of a successful UVA Law student, and I say it's the people who are involved and who do things outside of the classroom and student orgs and things like that. So I know it's early, but have you explored that, or are you thinking about things you might want to get involved in down the line?

SUBJECT: Yeah, absolutely. So I think the organization I'm most involved in right now is if when, how, which is the lawyering for reproductive justice group on campus I'm one of the 1L representatives for that group. So that's been really wonderful experience. I also joined just as a member list, which is UVA's law information society and technology group that does a lot at the intersection of law and tech and information.

And Virginia Law Women, I think a lot of people are involved in. It's a really fabulous organization. They put on so many different events to help women at the law school figure out what different career paths they might be interested in and just build community. So that's been really fabulous to be a part of as well.

NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: That's a great mix. Now, this is going to sound crazy because you're only halfway through your very first year of law school, but I do want to talk about careers and career counseling. At UVA Law, as I'm sure is the case at other law schools, that process actually starts pretty early on, like you get here, you get settled, you go to class, and then boom, you're meeting with a career counselor. So can you walk us through what that process has been like for you?

SUBJECT: Yeah, so I have actually met with all three career counseling offices already. We have three different career counseling offices. We have the Office of Private Practice, the Office of Public Service, and the Office of Judicial Clerkships. And so I think the first time that I met with these offices was in either late September or early October.

And they were one on one meetings just to get acquainted, discuss what you thought your 1L summer would look like, what you thought you wanted to do your 2L summer, and if you had an idea of where you wanted to go after graduation so they could help start tailoring your cover letters and your resumes and your activity involvement to help you reach those goals, which was really great.

I've met with the judicial clerkships office, I believe, twice; the public service office, once; and the private practice office, once. And all of them have provided really invaluable feedback, again, on my resume, cover letter, how to find jobs, and how to set yourself up so that if you're someone like me who knows that they don't necessarily want a linear career path, you can keep options open for yourself in the future.

NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: So do you have a sense of how you're spending your 1L summer?

SUBJECT: I do. I'm going to be working for a judge on the US District Court for the District of Columbia, which I'm very excited about, doing a judicial internship, and then also going to be doing research with Professor Khan at the law school, part-time, who does reproductive rights and privacy work, which I'm very excited about.

NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: Oh my God, look at you. I'm so proud. Oh my gosh. On the clerkships episode a couple episodes ago, I said, everyone wants to work on the DC district court. Not everyone gets to, but Mackenzie gets to. So that's amazing. Congratulations to you. That's going to be a great, busy, but great, great summer experience.

OK, let's move on to some fun stuff. I do want to make sure our listeners know that despite all of the academics and career counseling and everything we've covered so far, what else do, in fact, have free time. So Mackenzie, what's been your favorite way to spend that free time?

SUBJECT: Yeah. I really just love spending time with my fellow classmates, exploring Charlottesville. I love going running on main grounds. The main grounds campus is absolutely gorgeous, especially in the fall. And so I spent a lot of time there. I love hiking. So Charlottesville is just a mecca for hiking. Shenandoah is not too far away. There's lots to do to get outside. And UVA also has a fantastic outdoors club that helps organize some trips that I've been a part of to get people out into the area. So I love doing that.

And I also love hosting dinner parties for friends in my section. We just had a pasta night the other night where we made homemade pasta and watched some Partner Track, which was written by a UVA alum. So that was really exciting. But just, yeah, spending time with friends and getting out into the community.

NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: That's great. Yes, Partner Track. First of all, it's a Netflix show based on a book, super fun. I also read the book, and the author will be the graduation speaker this year. So that's exciting. What's your favorite thing about Charlottesville? You mentioned running on central grounds, which I agree. There's nothing better than that. And the hiking and-- what do you love about Charlottesville or what's maybe your go-to spot?

SUBJECT: Yeah, I love so many things about Charlottesville. Beyond its beauty, it just feels like there's a never ending list of things to do. A couple of favorite spots, though, if I had to whittle it down, in addition to main grounds and Shenandoah nearby Carter mountain, a lot of the law students, in the fall, every Thursday, will go to, Oh my gosh, I'm blanking on the name. But it's an event at Carter mountain where--

NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: Sunset Series.

SUBJECT: Sunset Series, yes, where you go and listen to music. And there's a cider orchard. So you can pick apples and eat at food trucks and watch the sunset over the Charlottesville Valley. And it's just gorgeous and a great time to bond with your peers. My section is also sponsored by Crozet Pizza, our softball team. And so I got to give a shout out to Crozet.

It's a really fun area right by the main grounds. It's a pizza place that has an outdoor venue with string lights, and my section has gone there several times to just hang out and get to each other better. And the weather in Charlottesville is so lovely that we get to do that all the way through December

NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: Crozet pizza sponsoring your softball team. That's brilliant. I think our sponsor was like Westlaw or LexisNexis, not nearly as fun. OK, so Mackenzie, I like to wrap up every show with some advice. You've already given a lot of great advice, I think, just based on your own experience.

But for listeners out there who are most likely, right now, either working hard to get their law school applications in or they're waiting to hear back from schools, as I mentioned, you were just in this position relatively recently, so what's the number one piece of advice you would give someone going through that process right now?

SUBJECT: Yeah, I think the most common advice that people hear but I will reiterate it is just to be patient with the process. I know it's really, really hard. But at the end of the day, everyone will end up at a school that's a good fit for them, and everyone will be able to achieve their dreams and become a lawyer, which is the most important thing.

I think it's also really important to try and sift through the noise. A lot of advice was thrown at me throughout the application process on how to craft my application, how to decide where to go, how to decide what type of law I wanted to pursue. And even the advice that I've been giving on this podcast, everyone should take with a grain of salt because only you know yourself and know your goals. And I think being really proactive about always coming back to that and recentering yourself and reflecting upon what it is that you want to achieve and why you're going to law school will always be your best guiding light.

NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: I think that's great advice. And the part about being patient, so for everyone out there who is hearing Mackenzie and how great of a 1L year she's had, Mackenzie didn't even know that she was into UVA Law until more than a month from now. So remember, February is a very, very, very busy time in admissions. So if you all haven't heard back from schools or they're kind of trickling in, like you said, be patient. You will get those decisions. They will be coming in.

Mackenzie, this has been so much fun. I learned something new on this podcast every time and it's one of the things I love about it. But I can't tell you how grateful I am. You're so busy in this 1L year, so thank you so much for being here.

SUBJECT: Thank you so much for having me. It was so much fun.

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NATALIE RAJKOVIC BLAZER: This has been Admissible with me, Dean Natalie Blazer at the University of Virginia School of Law. My guest today was 1L Mackenzie Quebec. For more information about applying to UVA Law, please visit law.virginia.edu and click on the admissions tab. The next episode of Admissible will be out Friday, March 2nd. In the meantime, you can follow the show on Instagram at @admissible podcast. Thanks so much for listening and please remember to rate the show wherever you listen to podcasts.

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