‘Admissible’ S2 E4: The UVA Law Alumni Network

NATALIE BLAZER: Going way back to when you were applying, what motivated you to pursue law school in the first place?

JASON TRUJILLO: So there is probably a more intellectual answer to this that would be more desirable. But the answer is I used to watch a lot of TV, and I loved the show called Law and Order. And I watched a ton of Law and Order. And I was like, wow, this is a pretty cool job.

NATALIE BLAZER: Believe it or not, people still write about Law and Order in their personal statements, which I like because it makes me happy that people are still watching that show. It's on 24 hours a day, after all.

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This is Admissible. I'm Natalie Blazer, Dean of Admissions at UVA Law. We've spent a lot of time on this show so far talking about how special the community is at UVA Law because understanding the environment you're entering into is obviously important to know when you're deciding among law schools where you think you'll be the best fit.

Well, today, we're going to talk about how special the community is after you graduate from UVA Law. We're talking about the alumni network. Think about it this way. You're only in law school for three years, but you're UVA Law graduate for life. So the alumni community you decide to join is incredibly important for a lot of different reasons we're going to cover in today's episode.

Personally, I have found that the UVA law alumni network is really one of the most special aspects of being a graduate of this school. You meet another UVA Law alum anywhere in the world. And you feel an instant connection and bond to that person and probably end up chatting with them for hours.

So I'm super excited to introduce our guest today because he and I go way back, farther back than any other guests I've had on the show before. Jason Trujillo graduated from UVA Law in 2001 and has worked here at the law school for 20 years. He currently serves as the Chief Development Officer for the Law School Foundation.

Jason has worked in the Law School Foundation for the last 12 years or so. But prior to that, he held a variety of roles at UVA Law, including my own role as dean of admissions. Welcome to Admissible, Jason.

JASON TRUJILLO: Thank you, Natalie. Good morning. And thanks for having me.

NATALIE BLAZER: Oh, it's so fun to have you here. Now, I wanted to let you tell our listeners just how far back we go.

JASON TRUJILLO: So it's been 18 years since your admission cycle in the '04-'05 admission cycle. And I was reminded of that fact because I had dinner with one of your classmates. And he sat down and said, I think we've known each other 18 years.

NATALIE BLAZER: [LAUGHS] I love that. I found my admission letter back a couple of years ago doing some spring cleaning, signed by Jason Trujillo.

JASON TRUJILLO: Yes.

NATALIE BLAZER: So Jason admitted me to the law school. I feel like this is a full circle moment. I really owe you one, Jason, so thank you. OK, so one thing I've been doing this season, I like to ask every guest what their last meal on Earth would be.

JASON TRUJILLO: Oh, that's a good question. I think that the one that immediately comes to mind is homemade grilled cheese and tomato gazpacho soup that my family actually likes to make. It's our standard comfort food. So homemade grilled cheese, homemade bread, homemade tomato gazpacho soup, if you can make it cold, it's just delicious.

NATALIE BLAZER: That sounds so yummy. So now I want to talk about your own journey to UVA Law. So how did you ultimately decide to attend UVA Law?

JASON TRUJILLO: So my admitted student day was 25 years ago this March.

NATALIE BLAZER: Wow.

JASON TRUJILLO: I had visited the other schools that I was admitted to, including one in New York, which I thought I was probably going to go to since it was closer to home. But I came to UVA and found that people had time for me when I had questions. And people really seemed to enjoy themselves here.

And I thought, well, any of these schools, which are all great schools, can get me to where I want to go. And I thought I might go back and practice in the New York City area. Why not spend three years at a place where people really seem to enjoy themselves? And I really got that feeling when I visited on admitted student day. It was confirmed by every interaction I had. And I just think the confluence of those events made it a very obvious choice for me.

NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah, I love that. I've heard a similar explanation from a lot of people. And I think that really rings true. So once you got to law school, what were you involved in outside of class, student organizations, things like that?

JASON TRUJILLO: Yeah, the one that comes to mind immediately because I just got off the phone with a friend of mine and classmate is he and I were members of Saint Thomas More together, which is a group of Catholic law students. And he actually ended up being the godfather to both my kids. And I literally just got off the phone with him as I was pulling into the parking lot. So that's the that immediately comes to mind.

NATALIE BLAZER: I love that. I love that. What about your classes or a faculty member, anything there that really sticks out?

JASON TRUJILLO: So I ended up becoming a trial lawyer. I was a prosecutor for a couple of years. And I have this very funny story. I took an evidence class with a professor who's now retired named Graham Lilly. And Graham was a great teacher and a great professor. And I remember things he taught me in class when I was trying cases and in the courtroom.

And I was a very young attorney and was regularly going up against attorneys 20 years my senior, 30 years my senior. And there was this evidentiary question I'll never forget. Do you remember those green hornbooks?

NATALIE BLAZER: Oh, yeah.

JASON TRUJILLO: OK, so for the listeners who may not know these green hornbooks are-- I wouldn't call them cheat sheets-- but they're sort of distillations.

NATALIE BLAZER: Like CliffNotes sort of.

JASON TRUJILLO: They're kind of CliffNotes of an area of the law. And Graham had written the one on evidence. And people have varying opinions about these hornbooks. Some people say, well, it's a CliffNotes thing. And other people say it's a legitimate reference source.

And so I remember being in court and losing an evidentiary point and going up to the bench. And we were having this back and forth with the judge and the defense attorney. And he took out Graham's hornbook. And I could not believe it. And I still was losing this point.

And I said, Judge, I don't want to be a jerk about this. But I had Professor Lily as my evidence. I'm sure I'm right. And he literally shrugged his shoulders and said, OK. And that was just a great encapsulation of what Graham taught me. But he would say all these things that would come back to me. So--

NATALIE BLAZER: Exactly. I think there's one thing to be brilliant, which all of our faculty are. But to distill it in a way that not only sticks with you, but then you can apply in a real-life setting, that's awesome. So now I want to talk a little bit about your career path out of UVA Law. You said you started as a prosecutor. What ultimately brought you back to work at the law school?

JASON TRUJILLO: This is a funny admissions story, actually. So I only had one job when I was out practicing. And I was a prosecutor for a couple of years. And I was sitting at my desk one day and picked up the phone. And the person on the other end of the line said, Jason Trujillo, this is Jerry Stokes. Do you remember me?

And I said, yeah, Dean Stokes, didn't you admit me to UVA Law School? And he said, yes, that is going to make this next question easier for me. I need you to help me this Saturday at the New York City Law Forum.

NATALIE BLAZER: Oh my god.

JASON TRUJILLO: And I said, oh, what's a law forum? And he said, well, you and I are going to go to the Hilton on Sixth Ave. And we're going to stand behind a table for six hours and talk to prospective law students. I said, OK, I'll take the bus in from New Jersey.

And to backtrack a little bit, I had seen-- and I was involved in the Public Interest Law Association when I was a student. In fact, I was president in my third year. And I worked very closely with the Public Service Center. And what happened was the law school was looking for somebody to run the Public Service Center. And I had seen it in the alumni magazine. And I was interested in it, but I really wasn't ready to leave practice.

And long story short, Jerry Stokes, behind the table for six hours, really encouraged me like, oh, you should really think about this. People are talking about that you might be interested in it. And ended up applying for that position and coming back to the law school as the head of public service. And that was my first role at the law school. So--

NATALIE BLAZER: Well, have my wheels turning because, as I've mentioned on the show before, we have leaned on our amazing alums to help us at things like the New York Forum, the LA Forum. And now I'm like, hmm, if there's ever an opening at the law school, I might tap them. Oh, I love that. So you started at the law school as the director of public service.

JASON TRUJILLO: Correct.

NATALIE BLAZER: And then walk me through what happened next, how you ended up in admissions.

JASON TRUJILLO: Sure. So Jerry Stokes, the gentleman who I just told you recruited me, ended up leaving the law school. And I ended up taking his position. So it's just amazing how this happens. So I was in the Public Service Center. And, again, very happy doing what I was doing. But they needed somebody to come to work in admissions.

And as you know, it's not a huge staff. And so when you go down one person, it's very meaningful. And they said, hey, would you like to slide over to admissions? So I started doing half admissions, half-- I was running public service and clerkships at the time when that was one person and then moved over to full-time admission.

So it was really out of a business necessity. And I thought it was interesting. I loved my time. And I thought the function was great, so moved over to admissions, did that for a couple of years. John Jeffries, our former dean, asked me to be his assistant when he was transitioning out as dean. And I so did that. And if you know John, that was one of the most educational years of my life, maybe still the most educational year of my life.

And then Paul Mahoney became dean and said, hey, I don't need you as my assistant. What I really need you to do is run admissions and financial aid. So I was the dean of admissions and financial aid for a couple of years, did that. Lou Alvarez, who I think you know pretty well, is the CEO of the Law School Foundation, so my boss at the Law School Foundation. But he's also a bit of an older brother to me. And we go way back.

And he said, if you ever thought of doing something other than what you're doing, I'd love to have you up here at the foundation. And at that point, I'd been in the administration eight years or so. And I said, yeah, I'm interested in all kinds of things.

And so I used to introduce myself when I gave talks that I'm a UVA Law grad. And I happened to be serving as the dean of admissions. I happened to be serving as chief development officer because I feel like it's the same family. You just have different roles. So I've been very lucky to have a couple of different roles, all of which I found very fulfilling, within the same building.

NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah, so you really this place inside and out with all the different sort of offices that you've gotten to see how they operate.

JASON TRUJILLO: I feel like I have a good well-rounded view of the law school. I'll give a great example. You take our loan forgiveness program, which, basically, the law school essentially helps you pay back your loans. And it's a bit of a sliding scale. There's a bottom number under which you don't pay anything. I think that's currently 65 and possibly on its way up. And it's a way for the law school to help students who are going into lower-paying public service jobs manage their debt. And it's a great incentive for people to go into public service.

So when I was a student working in the Public Interest Law Association, I was helping, from the student side, craft what it might look like. This is in the '90s, the late '90s. When I was an alum, I took advantage of the program. I'd get the checks and take it. When I was in the Public Service Center, it was obviously something I worked on.

And in that role, when I was admissions and financial aid dean, I was using that as an enticement to get students to come and say, isn't this great? This is a benefit that we have. On the financial aid side, we're actually administering the dollars for it. We were thinking about changing it, the terms again when I was John Jeffries' assistant. So I was intimately involved there. When I was at the foundation, we were raising money for it. And so just one slice of the law school, our loan forgiveness program, I've seen it from every angle.

NATALIE BLAZER: From every angle. That's so helpful because until you're the one getting the checks, you might not understand how it works. That's so fascinating. So back to the foundation where you currently are, your title is chief development officer. So what's your day-to-day?

JASON TRUJILLO: So right now, we are in a capital campaign. And a capital campaign is a period of time in which a school makes a very concerted effort to raise a set amount of money for certain things. And so we are in a campaign that is going to last until June 30, 2025. And we are trying to raise $400 million for the law school. And that's a big number.

And so we are at about 362 right now. So we're over 90% done, which is great. But nevertheless, we have 28 months to raise the other 39, 30-ish million. So it requires pretty steady effort.

So my day-to-day now is really focusing our team on major gifts. We have a lot of people who are so pleased to have been associated with the law school and are now in a position that they can give back to the law school. And so our capital campaign has three major areas of focus-- professorships, so chairs, faculty chairs, scholarships for students, and unrestricted dollars. We have these things called unrestricted endowments.

And when we were setting up this capital campaign, number one, this is a very unusual capital campaign in that there are no capital projects. So the building is quite beautiful. So this is what we call a people-first campaign. And part of it is strategy. The law is changing so quickly. Law practice is changing so quickly. Legal education is changing.

And we thought, we don't know what the law school of 50 or 100 years is going to look like. But I'm pretty sure we'll have faculty that want to get paid. I'm pretty sure we'll have students that want scholarships.

NATALIE BLAZER: Oh, yes.

JASON TRUJILLO: And I'm pretty sure we will have a dean that wants unrestricted dollars. That's my entire strategic plan.

NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah, as someone who is in the thick of scholarship season, thank you for raising those dollars because, as I'm sure our listeners know, scholarships and financial aid make a huge difference where people are attending these days. So that really can't be overstated how important that is.

So as you just mentioned, you're interacting with UVA Law alumni every day, not just on your staff. But that's what you're doing, going out, talking to our alums. So you know this population probably better than anyone. What qualities or characteristics define a UVA Law alum? What might set them apart from other lawyers?

JASON TRUJILLO: I think that your typical UVA Law alum loves the law and the profession but has not forgotten that he or she is a human first. And that human aspect of relationships is critically important. And some of that is what they got at the law school. This is a place where you're going to learn. You're going to have great outcomes. But the relational aspect of humans interacting is a key part of the culture and identity, and that carries on.

So when I ask an alum for help for a current student, for example, I'm always met with something that's nothing short of enthusiastic. That's not common-- the funny phenomena that I get hosting alumni events is when UVA alums bring their spouses, and they say, oh, I went to X law school, or I went to Y law school. And I never go to their events. And they come to ours, and so we've adopted them. And I think that's a real interesting sign of a health of an organization when they want to go to their spouses' law school event rather than their own.

NATALIE BLAZER: Right. It's a different level of loyalty and enthusiasm--

JASON TRUJILLO: It is.

NATALIE BLAZER: --I think.

JASON TRUJILLO: There are a lot of undergraduate schools that I think have that. It's just a little bit more rare in the professional school environment. I have a lot of friends that are doctors. It's a little more rare there and a little more rare at the law school. So I think the fact that it exists here is a beautiful thing.

NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah, and the human element really, I agree, is so central to that. You hear people talk about the UVA law alumni network. So obviously, it's made up of the alumni themselves and all the qualities you just mentioned. But how does that network operate for current students, for young alums, and so on?

JASON TRUJILLO: I think there is a utilitarian aspect of the alumni network. There are a lot of alumni who are in positions to be able to be helpful. And they want to be helpful. They actually look back at their law school experience with fondness. Some of them were helped by the network, and they do want to pay it forward.

So I deal with a lot of alumni who want to talk to admitted students, or they want to help current students. And that putting people together can be very helpful. Let's say we have a 3L who summered in some city. But now they're about to get engaged, and their partner lives in some random city that they've never been to before.

And so that person now needs an introduction to a new network maybe all the way across the country, and they don't know anyone there. And for us to be able to tap into the alumni network and say, hey, so-and-so needs to call an audible for whatever reason, Can you help this person? that is an enormously satisfying part of the job to be able to leverage those relationships for the benefit of the student.

NATALIE BLAZER: Absolutely. And I will say for admitted students who are deciding where to go for law school, we have an alumni connection program that your office also runs, which I love seeing the connections that are made between an admitted student who is deciding between top law schools. And they want to talk to a UVA Law alum who practices in the Pacific Northwest maybe or a very specific type of law, or they share a similar background.

Your team will find that alum. And as you said, that alum will very enthusiastically talk to that admitted student. And it just warms my heart that they went out of their way to make that connection and to be helpful.

JASON TRUJILLO: Yes, no, it's a real asset here. I think the network that we enjoy is very powerful-- is very powerful and perhaps not something you think about as much as an admitted student. But being a student is a very short period of time.

NATALIE BLAZER: So true.

JASON TRUJILLO: I used to give the talk at orientation. And I used to make this joke about calling them prealumni. And so you're not really a student. You're just a prealumni. And so because the status of student is very short, three years. And in some ways, when you pick a law school, you're picking a network because you're only in the law school for three years.

So some people get, I think, overly concerned about, what is this next year going to look like? And what is this three years going to look? Really, what you need to think about is, what is your life going to look like?

And I talk to a lot of older alumni. As you can imagine, I do a lot of the planned giving for the law school. So people who are putting the law school in their estates or they're setting up a trust to benefit the law school, you get very introspective when you're thinking about the end-of-life issues. And you're now 80 years old, and you graduated law school 65 years ago. And you're thinking back and what's important. And the time you actually spend in law school is a fraction of that time.

And those people look back fondly on their relationships. It's not typically their professional success that they want to talk about. It's the relationships that they built along the way. And those are just critically important.

NATALIE BLAZER: So a lot of listeners are starting to hear back from law schools. And they're making decisions about where to spend the next three years, where they're going to be a prealumni, as you put it. So what advice-- maybe not even just from the foundation but from all of your roles, your 360 view of a law school, what advice would you give to a prospective student who's in the process of deciding where to attend?

JASON TRUJILLO: The decision that somebody will make to attend law school really ought to be one that's best for them. You talked about a lot of information being out there. Well, with information comes advice. And a lot of people saying you should go here for this reason, or this is, quote unquote, "a better law school," this will give you more-- I would tune all that out.

If I had to give one piece of advice for a prospective law student, I would say, you have to decide how you want to live your life, where you want to live your life, who you want to interact with. These are the things that are going to make you happy. The Greeks have this word. I think it's called "eudaimonia," which is not exactly you subjective happiness. It's more this objective feeling of contentment.

And as I talk to people who are really at the end of their life, that's what you want to achieve. I've definitely talked to people who are very content about their life. And they really are just quite satisfied. And those people did not do what everyone else was telling them to do, or you should do this, or you need to chase this next goal.

It was really, how do you want to spend your life? What do you want to do with the time that's given to you? And what is the environment going to be like? Where do you want to spend your time? And for me at least, the choice was very obvious, that if I was going to spend what was still a trying three years academically-- and there was definitely times in law school when I thought, this is hard. This is really hard.

I was in class with somebody who's now on the Fourth Circuit. And I remember when he spoke, I said, if that is what the answer is supposed to sound like, I'm not sure I'm in the right spot. But even with all of those trials and all of those challenging times, there was never a point that I thought, this is-- I mean, I always thought this is exactly the place that I want to experience all of that in because I have the support of my friends. And this is a place that is very human.

NATALIE BLAZER: I love that. It is three years of your life. We were saying earlier, it's only three years. However, it's more than just a means to an end. It's more than just your law degree. It is going to be such a formative time, such a special time. You don't want to rush it. It's already going to go by so fast. And as difficult as it is, I agree with you. Especially this day and age, I feel like people want to make the most of their time, where they are in human relationships and togetherness and all of that.

So, Jason, before we go, you used to have-- you a great job now. You used to have the best job in the world, which I consider to be my own. So thinking about UVA admissions, which is why a lot of folks are listening to this show, do you have a favorite success story or memory from your time as dean of admissions?

JASON TRUJILLO: I think this will span both the time I spent in the Public Service Center and admissions and now the foundation work. I really enjoy-- I can't pick one. I really enjoy seeing people find where they're supposed to be. I'll give one example. So a gentleman I knew as a first-year law student taking constitutional law and saying, wow, this is kind of hard, is now a federal judge.

And I went to his investiture. And I happened to have-- I invited a student to come with me because she was going to intern with him. And she sat right next to me during the ceremony, and she was a law student at the time. And she was in awe of the majesty. They do a pretty good job when you become a judge.

And I said, he was just like you when you were a law student. And she sort of joked around. And I said, no, no, no, that really could be you. He is a very young judge who, 15 years ago, 17 years ago, 18 years ago, was in your shoes. That could be you in 18 years. And she sort of chuckled like, oh, you're just saying something that's nice. But I've seen it over and over.

And I will say that woman is now clerking on the Supreme Court. So I called her, and I said, do you remember that joke I made about-- I think your chances just went up. So I really enjoy seeing the success of our alumni. And I remember them when they were struggling, and now they're in these positions that are just unbelievable.

So I think those are some of my favorite memories of remembering somebody as a student. And now you fast forward 15 years, and they're super successful. And they're in a position to help people out. And they have this incredible persona.

But I do love visiting them, and they say, hey, Jason, you still remember me back when? I said, yeah, no, I'm not going to tell anyone. So I know you're a huge big shot now. But I won't tell anyone that you're struggling in criminal law like everyone else.

NATALIE BLAZER: Well, if you had told me as a 1L soon after admitting me that I would one day have your job, I absolutely would have never believed you. And just to bring it back to the human element that you talked about, I know this federal judge of whom you speak and talk about the most down-to-earth, unassuming, friendly, responsive. I email him if we need something from admissions. He gets back to me within minutes. He's always happy to do it. He is humble.

And again, I'm sure I've heard many stories, actually, of him speaking in class. And everyone's mind being blown because of how brilliant he is. But he's such a great guy, such a nice guy. And I think that is something that is a common trait of the UVA Law student body and network.

JASON TRUJILLO: Absolutely. It's a great place.

NATALIE BLAZER: Yeah, well, Jason, this has been so much fun. Thank you again for being on the show. And thank you again for admitting me to UVA Law.

JASON TRUJILLO: Well, it's been wonderful to see where you have ended up and to see you thrive in this position. So--

NATALIE BLAZER: Thank you.

JASON TRUJILLO: Thanks for having me.

NATALIE BLAZER: Of course.

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This has been Admissible with, me Dean Natalie Blazer, at the University of Virginia School of Law. My guest today was Law School Foundation Chief Development Officer Jason Trujillo. For more information about UVA Law, please visit law.virginia.edu. The next episode of Admissible will be out Friday, March 17.

In the meantime, you can follow the show on Instagram at @admissiblepodcast. Thanks so much for listening. And please remember to rate the show wherever you listen to podcasts.

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